Paul and Islam: "No Matter What"

[skatingfan04]

The Way You Look Tonight is one of my all time favourite songs. What great choices they've made! I figured they were leaning this way when I saw their Gala at the COS show, because it felt very much like an experiment that they were doing with a new style. This Sinatra music is very much in that same style. I'm not surprised, because that gala program was definitely a success, and it brought out a whole new side of their expression. If they handle this FD in the same way as they did the gala, it's going to work out very well for them.

I also can't wait to see their Paso/Flamenco styling. Their attention to detail is always just incredible, so I'm thinking that the program is going to be quite intricate. The music also suggests a more folk-themed style, so their program may very well look quite different from many of the other teams. I'm so excited!

 

[Emdee]

Alexandra's Line in the Photo is absolutely superb.
I am excited to see their programs though I dont know whether I can make it to Barrie.

 

[Pratfall]

Ten days away from the actual start of competition ( almost there...) Can you stand it ?..

I confess I've never been a big Sinatra fan.. don't really dislike him, but if I had to stick to that genre , I'd prefer Tony Bennett. That said , Sinatra still has broad appeal , and I get the style - sort of modern, sophisticated and maybe a bit louche . I definitely think P/I can carry that off.

ETA: Oh, I can't stop myself ... I want Alex to find her inner Ava Gardner... I'm utterly confident that the SD will be great.

You lucky ones who will be in the stands - don't restrain your enthusiasm when you give your in person reports ...I want to wallow in it.

 

[lauravvv]

Ten days away from the actual start of competition ( almost there...) Can you stand it ?..

I am impatient to see their programs too. Those Pasodoble/flamenco SDs seem to emphasize bad posture more than other dances, especially on female partners. For instance, Weaver's posture has never bothered me as much as in their new Paso SD, although it is actually not so noticeable all the way through. Not to mention lower level teams. So I am looking forward to Paul/Islam's SD in hopes that Alexandra has brought her usually wonderful posture to it as well.

 

[skatingfan04]

P/I's styling in the Paso will be gorgeous, I'm sure. I adore their ability to control their arms, and I can't wait to see them put that to use.

 

[Pratfall]

The Skate Canada site is still only saying the streaming and broadcast schedules for the season will be released shortly (time is getting short, guys). I'm daring to hope there will be some streaming for this event (and that the lighting in the rink is good..)

Yes. I want it all...

 

[lavenderblue]

Every other Challenger event has been streamed so far -- I don't think there's anything unreasonable about hoping Skate Canada would do the same for their own event which includes Olympians and World team members, national medalists, and several Grand Prix competitors. That section had the capabilities for Thornhill.

 

[DE93]

The Skate Canada site is still only saying the streaming and broadcast schedules for the season will be released shortly (time is getting short, guys). I'm daring to hope there will be some streaming for this event (and that the lighting in the rink is good..)

Yes. I want it all...

The lighting in the Allendale Rec Centre is definitely NOT good from what I remember. Sorry.

 

[skatingfan04]

The season is finally starting!

P/I posted this adorable pic yesterday...
https://twitter.com/alexandrapaul_/status/521741200806928385/photo/1

And to make things even better, apparently we're getting a live stream! I'll keep my eye out for the link and post it when I see it (unless one of you lovely people beats me to it!).
https://twitter.com/SkateMariposa/status/522110330294796288

Who's excited!?!

 

[Pratfall]

ME!... I've been going nuts looking for news of a live stream, checking Skate Canada multiple times a day....

ETA : Starting order just went up

1 Andreanne POULIN / Marc-Andre SERVANT CAN
2 Pilar MAEKAWA MORENO / Leonardo MAEKAWA MORENO MEX
3 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN DEN
4 Nicole ORFORD / Thomas WILLIAMS CAN
-------------------
5 Sara HURTADO / Adria DIAZ ESP
6 Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM CAN
7 Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON FRA
8 Alissandra ARONOW / Collin BRUBAKER USA
9 Carter Marie JONES / Richard SHARPE GBR
--------------------
10 Tatiana KOZMAVA / Aleksandr ZOLOTAREV GEO
11 Cortney MANSOUR / Michal CESKA CZE
12 Anastasia OLSON / Ian LORELLO USA
13 Celia ROBLEDO / Luis FENERO ESP
14 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER CAN

Hmmmmm....

 

[skatingfan04]

Stream's up!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27xool_2014-skate-canada-autumn-classic_sport#from=embediframe

 

[mirage]

Hmmm. Horseshoes.

 

[clarie]

Glad to see them come out ahead of Gilles/Poirier again. Good luck to them in the FD.

 

[canadablue]

Looks like a great program! That lift will be incredible once they smooth it out.

The music is out of sync on all the stream videos - I'll be fixing the sound as best I can and posting them on youtube. Here's P/I
http://youtu.be/w-6VKN-376c

 

[Pratfall]

canadablue, you're a hero - it's so much nicer to see it with the music in sync ! ( yes, it's me with the rumba discussion on GS).. Now, quite apart from who scored what on the lift ..can anyone tell me why, by any yardstick, G/P's skating skills should be scored higher than P/I's ? .. That's rhetorical. I'm sure there are some who will try to tell me, but I won't be buying it...

 

[canadablue]

My pleasure! I also managed to record part of their warmup, unfortunately not the whole thing. (Why are warmups never archived? Not cool.)
http://youtu.be/qPy9Ql3pvkM

And thanks again for the clarification re: music. If you have anything further to add about the characteristics of the pieces they've chosen, I for one would be very interested! I've never been able to find the elusive ISU Rhythms Booklet, and have sometimes found myself a bit lost trying to piece that aspect of the criteria together.

 

[Pratfall]

Well, I don't claim to be an expert..I've never been much of a ballroom dancer, and never an ice dancer .. I'm also years and years away from my dancing days.. I may have expressed it badly on GS..But paso is a 2/4 and counts 1-2, 1-2 .. a flamenco rumba is a 4/4 , so you can fit a 2/4 into it, except, it's accents are 1-2-3-4 ( a latin 4/4 rumba counts 1-2-3-4-and .. or, 1-2-3-and-4).. so I worry whether the judges have to think twice about whether the skaters are on the right beat, if the skaters' feet are saying one thing, while the music is saying another. (maybe doris will chime in re: rule book)

I still think the dance has great possibility, but they'll have to be really crisp, really claim those unaccented beats, IMO. I think they need to have a more ..I don't know.. haughty ? expression. Mitch, particularly, needs to be possessive with her. ( but I'm sure they will be working on that. Progress has been made since they've been with K&C ... and remember how people used to say Andrew Poje was unexpressive ?..Ha.)

What I like about the way K&C develop this is that gradually,it comes from inside the skaters instead of having face-making pasted over the top.

 

[canadablue]

Well, I don't claim to be an expert..I've never been much of a ballroom dancer, and never an ice dancer .. I'm also years and years away from my dancing days.. I may have expressed it badly on GS..But paso is a 2/4 and counts 1-2, 1-2 .. a flamenco rumba is a 4/4 , so you can fit a 2/4 into it, except, it's accents are 1-2-3-4 ( a latin 4/4 rumba counts 1-2-3-4-and .. or, 1-2-3-and-4).. so I worry whether the judges have to think twice about whether the skaters are on the right beat, if the skaters' feet are saying one thing, while the music is saying another. (maybe doris will chime in re: rule book)

Thank you!

I'm quite familiar with the rule book (it's the rhythms themselves where I can get mixed up), so I'll share what I do know about the situation. If music used in the program is not in accordance with the allowed rhythms (accents and such, like you were describing), a deduction should be applied. If the music is absolutely fine, but the team is not actually dancing to the rhythm properly, they should be penalized in the Interpretation/Timing portion of PCS (and quite heavily too - only 90% correct drops you down to below 7.00 in that one aspect). When it comes to the pattern dance elements, correct timing and holding steps for the required number of beats becomes important both for key points and GOE.

Now, with regards to the paso sequences this season, the communication of technical requirements released in the spring said this:
http://static.isu.org/media/139578/1857-id-technical-requirements-season-2014-15.pdf

The Pattern Dance Element and the Partial Step Sequence must be skated on the same piece of music. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Element and the Partial Step Sequence must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Paso Doble, i.e. 56 measures of two beats or 112 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute.

For the previous two seasons, this communication specifically stated that the pattern dance must be skated to music of the proper rhythm - Polka Rhythm, and then Quickstep Rhythm. (As well, in the handbook, skating the pattern dance to the wrong rhythm was specified as an example being worthy of a music deduction.) There is no mention of the paso and partial step sequence (either in this communication or in this year’s handbook) needing to be skated to the proper Paso Doble Rhythm - only the tempo is specified. I'm thinking that the absence of this stipulation means that any Spanish Rhythm - or at least something similar to a 2/4 - is fine as long as the tempo is correct. And in the 2011-12 season, the communication specifically said that any of the allowed Rhythms were fine to skate the Rumba pattern to, provided the tempo was correct, so there is a precedent for pattern elements being skated to a rhythm different from that which they are normally skated to. So, as long as I'm interpreting this all correctly, there clearly should be no penalty for using an alternate rhythm than traditional paso doble - definitely no deduction, and presumably judges should be trained enough to deal with teams using different rhythms for the pattern elements if it's allowed. Of course, whether the judges in reality will have a problem seeing it as correct when assessing the GOE and IT is, like you pointed out, perhaps another issue.

Where the rule book is not helpful is in discerning the actual rhythms, hence my confusion in that area. So thank you very much for explaining the accents! That's exactly the information that is missing. Everything refers to the ISU Ice Dance Music Rhythms Booklet from 1995, which I cannot find a digital copy of anywhere. And the Spanish Dance Rhythms addition that is publicly available is also woefully unspecific.
http://static.isu.org/media/156240/spanish-dances-rhythms.pdf

 

[skatingfan04]

I still think the dance has great possibility, but they'll have to be really crisp, really claim those unaccented beats, IMO. I think they need to have a more ..I don't know.. haughty ? expression. Mitch, particularly, needs to be possessive with her. ( but I'm sure they will be working on that. Progress has been made since they've been with K&C ... and remember how people used to say Andrew Poje was unexpressive ?..Ha.)

What I like about the way K&C develop this is that gradually,it comes from inside the skaters instead of having face-making pasted over the top.

Thank you for the explanation. I 100% agree with your comment re. the development of P/I's performace ability. I like that they're projecting more and more each time we see them. While I agree that they could add some ferocity to this partiucular program, they really did seem to be playing the characters, and I think they have the sultry side of the style down pat. They're improving gradually in this area, and have done so without pasting on the fake, over the top expressions that judges seem to love rewarding (but that make fans like me cringe). I'd much rather see them gradually developing a genuinely emotional performamce style than going over the top and faking it.

As for the program itself, I like it. Room to improve, of course, but I think it's got great potential. I think the choreographic paso sequence leaves a lot to be desired, but I really liked the rest of it. Their arms were smooth and fluid, and they really used them to enhance the paso docble styling all the way through the program, which I loved. Their twizzles were really nice (I love how they cross each other so seamlessly during the first one that you barely notice they've done it. When most teams do that it's blatantly obvious), and I liked how secure they looked with the paso sequences. No clustching or grabbing, and really clean footwork throughout. The lift obviously didn't go as planned, but I'm sure that'll be lovely too once it's smoothed out. I'm excited to see how this progresses as the season goes on.

 

[puglover]

Wow - (and I mean this in a very good way) Alex has buff arms and chest muscles. Looks like they worked very hard in the off season. I see a new confidence and command in them.

 

[skatingfan04]

Yeah, the difference in confidence is really apparent. You can tell that their success last season has really given them a boost. They've lost that look of fear they used to compete with (though they had already made huge strides in that area last season), and they don't seem to tighten up any more when something goes wrong. They've gained some power, too, from what I could tell from the video (I suppose it doesn't hurt that they both appear to have bulked up in the off season). It's so, so nice to watch them and just enjoy their skating without that constant feeling of apprehension that something will go wrong.

 

[skatingfan04]

Catastrophic mistakes aside, I'm honestly not sure what to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aZDUNYxgM4

This program is in need of a major overhaul.

 

[Rafter]

I agree. As much as I like P/I, this program is not good. It's so.....juniorish looking. I don't get it. Why did they and their coaching staff decide to go in this direction? No highlights, unmemorable music, almost reserved presentation. Ugh. They need something much more sophisticated and mature looking.

 

[Emdee]

I agree. As much as I like P/I, this program is not good. It's so.....juniorish looking. I don't get it. Why did they and their coaching staff decide to go in this direction? No highlights, unmemorable music, almost reserved presentation. Ugh. They need something much more sophisticated and mature looking.

It was a very disappointing program. Also major mistakes.
It's very early in the season so it does need to build.
P/C were fabulous and deserved the win.

 

[clarie]

I'm another who was disappointed in the program and hope they do an awful lot of work on it (or change it).

 

[lavenderblue]

I love the short dance -- I appreciate that they went a somewhat different (but still suitable) route than many other teams who went for the more straightforward "woman as cape/matador vs. bull" paso angle. They can grow it even more since it's early, but the bones are there and the lift will be great once they get used to Alex's skirt.

The free dance, on the other hand, is a disappointment. They didn't help their cause by not skating it well, but I also think it lacks a lot on its own. I actually think the transitions in general are fine and they can sell those; their projection is really improving. But in the step sequences, they've just sacrificed their best quality, the very thing they put on display in W.E. -- they can handle difficulty. Where is the room for the close skating, the matching, the movement as one? I do think there's potential within the idea of this program and this music, but I really am going to be concerned if those step sequences don't see some major revisions as the season goes on (there may not be time to tweak much before Cup of China, unfortunately). But maybe the levels they picked up will be an incentive; Mitch's stumble did drop one down to some extent, but those marks are still kind of a wake-up call. The scores of the other teams here were not so insurmountable that the event should've been taken as some message that P/I just can't win. P/C's scores (which were appropriate for them) were nothing P/I weren't also able to do last fall. But their material then was a different beast.

 

[Emdee]

I don't know if you were present lavenderblue, but P/C came on to the ice like they owned it and they did. There was no tentative wishy washy performance.
A number of you shot me down a couple of weeks ago and yesterday, Mitch and Alex performed exactly as I felt they had a tendency to do. The crowd supported them hugely here. I was very sad for them as I had hoped that I was wrong in my perceptions and what a couple of you folks said was true.

Hope they can regroup and move forward.

 

[Sylvia]

Beverley Smith wrote this P/I article before Autumn Classic:
http://www.skatecanada.ca/2014/10/r...tchell-islam-to-debut-new-programs-in-barrie/

 

[Pratfall]

This program is unworthy of them. I'm glad to see it's not just me with my ho-hum feelings for Frank Sinatra... I'd rather see them re-work an old program that didn't get a lot of exposure.. (I'm clutching at straws, here.)

ETA: Having just read the Smith article ..D/L certainly did them no favours, here. This music is not that jazzy and not that bluesy..

 

[Jammers]

I think P/I need to break out of the V/M mold and stop being V/M lite and develop their own personalities on the ice.