Interview with Irina Slutskaya [post-Beijing]

[Fadeevfanboy]

Exactly.. I posted ordinals on page 2 of the SP and the judges couldn't decide either as they were all over the place.. majority of judges had Sarah 5th or lower yet she winded up 4th.. it was a mess

Suguri and Sebeysten really skated much better than both Hughes and Butyrskaya, who were both subpar and sluggish, with many mediocre elements, in the short. However Suguri skated almost first, and Sebeysten was a no name. Jennifer Robinson even had atleast a comparably strong short to either Hughes or Butyrskaya that night.

If Suguri skated near the end I am sure she is 3rd or 4th in the short that night.

Didn't Hughes have ordinals from 4th to 10th, and Butyrskaya from 3 3rds to a 10th. Yes a mess.

 

[kwanette]

Suguri and Sebeysten really skated much better than both Hughes and Butyrskaya, who were both subpar and sluggish, with many mediocre elements, in the short. However Suguri skated almost first, and Sebeysten was a no name. Jennifer Robinson even had atleast a comparably strong short to either Hughes or Butyrskaya that night.

If Suguri skated near the end I am sure she is 3rd or 4th in the short that night.

Didn't Hughes have ordinals from 4th to 10th, and Butyrskaya from 3 3rds to a 10th. Yes a mess.

2002 Olympic Winter Games - Ladies - Short Program

 

[Vagabond]

Hughes had the performance of her career in the free at Salt Lake and deserved her gold medal if we are basing it on the free alone. However, there is a strong argument that she should have been lower than fourth place after the short.

2002 Olympic Winter Games - Ladies - Short Program

There's not really much of a dispute about that; a plurality of judges had her in fifth place. Where there is a dispute is as to which additional skaters should have been placed ahead of her besides Kwan, Slutskaya, and Cohen. And as much as FSU posters often suggest that it should have been one or both of Suguri and Sebestyén (and no one else), the judges strongly disagreed with them.

 

[allezfred]

2002 Olympic Winter Games - Ladies - Short Program

There's not really much of a dispute about that; a plurality of judges had her in fifth place. Where there is a dispute is as to which additional skaters should have been placed ahead of her besides Kwan, Slutskaya, and Cohen. And as much as FSU posters often suggest that it should have been one or both of Suguri and Sebestyén (and no one else), the judges strongly disagreed with them.

Suguri, Sebestyen AND Meier should all have been ahead of Hughes.

 

[AYS]

omg, she dated Andrew Giuliani? That's all I have to say about that.

Continuing with this off topic discussion, @VGThuy you are right that Sarah had many excellent qualities and skills that should've added up to a better overall package (relatively speaking, obvious she was a fantastic skater), but her posture was always a pretty big issue from day one and because of that and not having soft knees and ankles, her way of moving from point A to point B was not smooth. When you have a tendency to let your upper body move forward ahead of your lower body when you move, and you don't lead with the hips and absorb the movement into your knees, your movement is labored and the overall package suffers.

 

[Vagabond]

Continuing with this off topic discussion

Topic? This thread had a topic?

 

[tony]

Why not carry on the off-topic discussions? I love talking about pre-IJS scoring anyways.

It's ridiculous that Slutskaya not only didn't win the SP, but that three judges thought she was only third-best. I know Irina had a problem coming out of her combination spin, but she was far and away the best in the short IMO. Her long programs are a different story, especially so in retrospect. Kwan, even with the underrotation (which was heavily discussed, even without IJS eyes at the time) still was 2nd best to me.

Hughes had so many built-in deductions to her short. Sometimes judges hammered the skaters, sometimes they looked the other way. Here, we have to look no further than Gusmeroli (a strong SP skater in general) being down in 10th for a 'clean' SP that had no steps into her individual triple as an example of that, but Hughes with her underrotations, flutz, shallow spiral pattern, etc. came away pretty much unscathed, even though the other elements were well-done.

Butyrskaya, who was and is my all-time favorite, may have skated tentatively but she still was clean to my eye, to the opposition of Hamilton (and Bezic) who seemed to scream two-foot on everything for her in both 1998 (LP) and 2002. She certainly should've been ahead of Hughes, and possibly even Cohen. I still really disliked the program and the choice to crawl through bad spirals and a mediocre layback to end, but that's that. And Suguri honestly makes the case to be right in the top 3, too, and got screwed out of the final group due to an ordinal flip after Meier skated (last) and put Sebestyen ahead.

Robinson skated about as well as she could've (slowest in the field, questionable rotations), but she and Hughes should've probably been competing for spots behind all of Butyrskaya, Suguri, Sebestyen, Meier, and Gusmeroli. I would give props to the one judge who put Hughes 10th, but she also found a way to give Suguri 13th which is insane.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm still over Kwan's DESERVED win in the SP at the 2002 Olympics. Even with the UR, it was like life finally made sense again. Two time Olympic winner...in the short program! Sasha Cohen knows! She also won the Olympics...short program. Olympic short program winners only club please. I personally enjoyed three judges putting Slute in third even though she really was better than Sasha in SLC. She had been so built up by SLC that she needed to be humbled a bit. She couldn't take results where she didn't run away with a win.

All of that said, Slutskaya's "Culture" is still one of my fave Ladies SP of all time and had she skated that in the manner she skated it at 2001 Worlds, I'd agree with putting her in first place unless Kwan had one of her majestic short programs, since we're playing in fantasy land anyway.

 

[Maximillian]

I remember seeing Hughes skate live at 2001 World and then GPF later that year, as well as watching ladies' practice session during the event and all I can remember were those astonishing hooks she left traced all throughout the rink wherever she landed a jump. Seriously, though technically URs weren't a 'thing' at the time, hers were being discussed a LOT on this board. I don't question her win in the LP in SLC knowing what the rules were then, however that doesn't mean that the URs weren't egregious and that's pretty much all I remember about her skating.

 

[Lizziebeth]

Tony's analysis above reminds me of all the reasons I hated the ordinal system. It was pretty much incomprehensible and there was not much information about what the judges were using to get the rankings. Unknown skaters could just be ranked low and disregarded. Ordinals flipped and the rankings changed.

Current scoring system is also manipulated, but it is a lot easier to follow if you put in the effort to learn.

 

[Coco]

It's pretty obvious we need a watch party for the short program Are those still a thing?

 

[VGThuy]

Results are still incomprehensible under IJS. They just know how to rationalize it better with numbers. You still wonder where they get those GOE and PCS from but at least you have base values to somewhat understand what the program as its most basic is worth with that.

 

[olympic]

Why not carry on the off-topic discussions? I love talking about pre-IJS scoring anyways.

It's ridiculous that Slutskaya not only didn't win the SP, but that three judges thought she was only third-best. I know Irina had a problem coming out of her combination spin, but she was far and away the best in the short IMO. Her long programs are a different story, especially so in retrospect. Kwan, even with the underrotation (which was heavily discussed, even without IJS eyes at the time) still was 2nd best to me.

Hughes had so many built-in deductions to her short. Sometimes judges hammered the skaters, sometimes they looked the other way. Here, we have to look no further than Gusmeroli (a strong SP skater in general) being down in 10th for a 'clean' SP that had no steps into her individual triple as an example of that, but Hughes with her underrotations, flutz, shallow spiral pattern, etc. came away pretty much unscathed, even though the other elements were well-done.

Butyrskaya, who was and is my all-time favorite, may have skated tentatively but she still was clean to my eye, to the opposition of Hamilton (and Bezic) who seemed to scream two-foot on everything for her in both 1998 (LP) and 2002. She certainly should've been ahead of Hughes, and possibly even Cohen. I still really disliked the program and the choice to crawl through bad spirals and a mediocre layback to end, but that's that. And Suguri honestly makes the case to be right in the top 3, too, and got screwed out of the final group due to an ordinal flip after Meier skated (last) and put Sebestyen ahead.

Robinson skated about as well as she could've (slowest in the field, questionable rotations), but she and Hughes should've probably been competing for spots behind all of Butyrskaya, Suguri, Sebestyen, Meier, and Gusmeroli. I would give props to the one judge who put Hughes 10th, but she also found a way to give Suguri 13th which is insane.

Were you fine with the placements in the LP? Just curious ...

I always thought that aside from Hughes in the LP, SLC 2002 showcased absolutely no one at their best: Slute, Kwan, Cohen, Butyrskaya, Suguri (one could argue she was making a statement for the future), Volchkova, Gusmeroli, and on and on

 

[Skibean]

I agree. Michelle and Irina were skating scared. Michelle had all the pressure of being expected to win in her home country and going coachless at that. Irina was probably considered the favorite going in, although both Kwan and Irina were beaten by Sarah Hughes so the upset wasn’t as shocking as some portray. She had the cover of Time ow Sports Illustrated- I can’t remember which- she was definitely not a surprise winner. Cohen wasn’t as amazing as peoples memories. Hughes skated the LP with no real pressure.

At the time I understood why Sarah won. I still think a case could’ve been made for Kwan. I never understood why Irina was so convinced she should’ve won. She skated sloppy- very sloppy.

 

[kwanette]

Table 1..placements in free skate..http://www.personal.psu.edu/klm47/Lock2003.pdf

 

[jlai]

Suguri, Sebestyen AND Meier should all have been ahead of Hughes.

Truth be told quite a few gold medals are won that way (with a lucky break in the short)

 

[Bouffantrex]

How comforting to see Slutskaya is as delusional as ever. Although after actually reading the entire interview, she occasionally makes sense, and isn't quite as detached from reality as the first bulleted message initially led me to believe.

As for Sarah Hughes, aside from the poor jump technique, by far her biggest shortcoming was a complete lack of charisma, no matter what Peggy Fleming tried to sell us back in the day. It was particularly glaring because many of her competitors of this era were very charismatic. Even Slutskaya, despite some awful long programs, had much more natural charisma and performance quality when she chose to. And not to mention the goddesses Kwan or Cohen.

Can someone please let Irina know it's been 20 years since SLC? Time to move on, honey.

 

[Vagabond]

Can someone please let Irina know it's been 20 years since SLC? Time to move on, honey.

I doubt that there are any open lines of communication between Irina Slutskaya and the outside world at the moment.

If there ever were.

 

[MacMadame]

Can someone please let Irina know it's been 20 years since SLC? Time to move on, honey.

She was answering a question asked of her. It's not like she brings this up on her own.

 

[Bouffantrex]

She was answering a question asked of her. It's not like she brings this up on her own.

Well duh. She was asked about SLC, but then chose to launch into conspiracy theories about why she didn't win and how "brazenly underscored" she was on presentation. It's been twenty years, let it go.

 

[MacMadame]

Well duh. She was asked about SLC, but then chose to launch into conspiracy theories about why she didn't win and how "brazenly underscored" she was on presentation. It's been twenty years, let it go.

So she's supposed to answer the question by saying something she doesn't believe. She believes she was screwed over. If she's asked about SLC, she's going to say that.

 

[olympic]

In re the interview, I noticed that she mentioned Butyrskaya. I always wondered about their relationship since from 96 - 02, they were locked in a strong duel for RUS #1. I remember at one NHK in either '00 or '01, Slute was so gifted at Bute's expense and the camera showed them sitting in the same section of the arena afterwards, but far apart

 

[Bouffantrex]

So she's supposed to answer the question by saying something she doesn't believe. She believes she was screwed over. If she's asked about SLC, she's going to say that.

This exchange with you is making my head hurt.

Sure, she could have said "I thought I should have won, but it was 20 years ago". Bringing up the 6.0 from Nagano Worlds is sad at this point.

 

[tony]

In re the interview, I noticed that she mentioned Butyrskaya. I always wondered about their relationship since from 96 - 02, they were locked in a strong duel for RUS #1. I remember at one NHK in either '00 or '01, Slute was so gifted at Bute's expense and the camera showed them sitting in the same section of the arena afterwards, but far apart

They were not friendly at all, but both have said that it was situational and that people really wanted a rivalry between them, yet they really didn't have a reason to dislike each other. One of the first things I noticed when Butyrskaya finally got an Instagram a few years ago is that she and Slutskaya are often liking and commenting on each other's posts, and Maria put up a pic of them together more recently (well, 2018).

Maria Butyrskaia on Instagram: "Взлетаем 🛫!!!😝Благовещенск!!! Спасибо за потрясающе тёплый приём! Коротко,но эмоций море!Открыли первый крытый каток!!! @slutskayaofficial @grebenkina_official #амурскаяосень #кинофестиваль"

498 likes, 19 comments - mariabutyrskaia on September 17, 2018: "Взлетаем 🛫!!!😝Благовещенск!!! Спасибо за потрясающе тёплый приём! Коротко,но эмоций море!Открыли первый крытый каток!!! @slutskayaofficial...".

www.instagram.com

 

[olympic]

They were not friendly at all, but both have said that it was situational and that people really wanted a rivalry between them, yet they really didn't have a reason to dislike each other. One of the first things I noticed when Butyrskaya finally got an Instagram a few years ago is that she and Slutskaya are often liking and commenting on each other's posts, and Maria put up a pic of them together more recently (well, 2018).

Maria Butyrskaia on Instagram: "Взлетаем 🛫!!!😝Благовещенск!!! Спасибо за потрясающе тёплый приём! Коротко,но эмоций море!Открыли первый крытый каток!!! @slutskayaofficial @grebenkina_official #амурскаяосень #кинофестиваль"

498 likes, 19 comments - mariabutyrskaia on September 17, 2018: "Взлетаем 🛫!!!😝Благовещенск!!! Спасибо за потрясающе тёплый приём! Коротко,но эмоций море!Открыли первый крытый каток!!! @slutskayaofficial...".

www.instagram.com

Thanks.

In the Instagram photo, who is Grebenkina? Dare I say it looks like cupcake …

Sadly, Slute’s t-shirt is something I wish I didn’t see. I believe the translation is ‘Russia, a country not afraid of anything’ ?? WTF

And can I say that Bute has kept the same level of flexibility over the years?

 

[Vagabond]

Dare we wonder what she feels about Russia's war in Ukraine?

Worst suspicions confirmed.