Vote for Yuna's GP replacement!

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

I think Marchei is a better skater.

But then her WS is low, I think.

I guess. I'm not a big Marchei fan, and her season's best score is 34 on the list while Min-Jung's is 26 and about 6 points higher. So I guess in the eye's of the judges, Marchei isn't better, but I don't really know.

I'd be fine if the spots went to any combination of Kwak, Dobbs, Lee, or LaCoste but I'm really not a fan of McCorkell, Helgesson, or Samson. The others I don't really have an opinion about.

[pinky166]

Just watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IqGneZvfOA of Marchei from 2010 Euros, where she earned her SB score. I like the speed and her footwork but I'm not feeling the spins and her jumps are a bit skary ....that first fall in particular looked very awkward and painful. And she does 3sal as her jump out of steps in the SP as well, so really it's not that big a deal, Phanuef does 3t as her jump out of steps and she finished 5th at Worlds this year...

So I stand behind my choice of Cheltzie and Min-Jung, and Dobbs for SA.

[isk8junkie]

pinky 166 wrote:

Last season Min-Jung was doing 4 different triples in her programs - lutz, flip (lip), loop, sal - and on the JGP in the fall she was also doing the triple toe so at this point she has a more expansive technical repertoire than Dobbs and Lee, and most of the other people on the list for that matter.

I'm not saying Min-Jung is great, but at this point I don't think anyone else in consideration for a second spot is better than her, except for maybe Dobbs, but if she's still only doing toes, sals, and the occasional flip then I'm not even sure.

The quality of Cheltzie's jumps when she's on far surpasses Min Jung to be honest. I'm sure Cheltzie will improve her technical jump repertoire this season. I look forward to seeing how much Min Jung and Cheltzie have improved this season.

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by isk8junkie

pinky 166 wrote:

The quality of Cheltzie's jumps when she's on far surpasses Min Jung to be honest. I'm sure Cheltzie will improve her technical jump repertoire this season. I look forward to seeing how much Min Jung and Cheltzie have improved this season.

I know, the same can be said of Dobbs, but now that the GOEs for jumps have been lowered, a really nice 3t or 3sal will not hold too much value, and with the new 2a rule, they'll have to at least try other jumps. I actually think this change in GOE is going to favor skaters who can do more kinds of triples but not neccessarily with lots of flow out.

[fogerty]

Originally Posted by pinky166

I know, the same can be said of Dobbs, but now that the GOEs for jumps have been lowered, a really nice 3t or 3sal will not hold too much value, and with the new 2a rule, they'll have to at least try other jumps. I actually think this change in GOE is going to favor skaters who can do more kinds of triples but not neccessarily with lots of flow out.

I would imagine with the changes in rules that these skaters will be more than willing to put out more variety in their jumps. Just because they weren't in there programs before doesn't mean they can't be done, especially if they are worth more...all part of the strategy I would think...

[MR-FAN]

Originally Posted by ainouta

Compared to Nikodinov, of course not. But compared to, say, Miki or Yu-Na? Definitely. She actually puts her leg into a semi-attitude position!

To be completely honest, I faaar prefer Miki's or Yu-Na's layback to hers (and about a dozen more asian ladies.) I actually don't like her layback at all. YEs, she's turning out her foot, but she's not extending her free leg, and the arch in her back is not that good. I'd rather Yu-Na's faaast, well-arched layback with a weak free-foot position anyday.

I do like the airy quality of her skating though!

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by fogerty

I would imagine with the changes in rules that these skaters will be more than willing to put out more variety in their jumps. Just because they weren't in there programs before doesn't mean they can't be done, especially if they are worth more...all part of the strategy I would think...

Maybe. Idk, I tend to think if a skater can do multiple kinds of triple jumps, then they'd be doing them in their programs. But maybe not. I heard Dobbs landed 3f at a local competition recently though so that's good. As for Lee, she's only been skating for like 5 years or something, and there isn't a lot of ice time for her to practice in Australia, so given her circumstances her even having 2 triples is amazing, though I've heard she can do 3f in practice so maybe we'll see it this season, especially with the new two 2a rule.

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by MR-FAN

To be completely honest, I faaar prefer Miki's or Yu-Na's layback to hers (and about a dozen more asian ladies.) I actually don't like her layback at all. YEs, she's turning out her foot, but she's not extending her free leg, and the arch in her back is not that good. I'd rather Yu-Na's faaast, well-arched layback with a weak free-foot position anyday.

I do like the airy quality of her skating though!

I agree the arch in her back could be improved, but I find her layback very aesthetically pleasing regardless. And actually, some amazingly flexible laybacks, like Mirai Nagasu's, I find a bit unattractive looking despite the very high degree of difficulty and stretch involved. In addition to Min-Jung's layback spin I also quite like Anna Ovcharova's (see at 1:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-c5...ext=1&index=12) even though she doesn't have the best arch in it either, it's really pretty, IMO.

[MR-FAN]

Originally Posted by pinky166

In addition to Min-Jung's layback spin I also quite like Anna Ovcharova's (see at 1:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-c5...ext=1&index=12) even though she doesn't have the best arch in it either, it's really pretty, IMO.

That's a beautiful layback, and I think she has a very good arch. and it's got great speed.

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by MR-FAN

That's a beautiful layback, and I think she has a very good arch. and it's got great speed.

When she goes into the haircutter though, her back straightens quite a bit and she is not arched very far back, but I actually think it's a prettier position than when the haircutter happens when the skater is bent backwards at a 90 degree angle, because often times it takes quite a while to bring the blade to the head, and the spin ends up looking very slow. Like I love Samantha's skating, but if you watch the layback starting at 1:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvSloFbFEU, I think the extreme bend in her back detracts from the attractiveness of the spin. Ellie's layback (starts at 3:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DerZs3sVW_k) I think is beautiful though, despite the first position not being the most arched in the back. But maybe I just have weird opinions about laybacks...

[Marco]

Originally Posted by MR-FAN

To be completely honest, I faaar prefer Miki's or Yu-Na's layback to hers (and about a dozen more asian ladies.) I actually don't like her layback at all. YEs, she's turning out her foot, but she's not extending her free leg, and the arch in her back is not that good. I'd rather Yu-Na's faaast, well-arched layback with a weak free-foot position anyday.

I do like the airy quality of her skating though!

Agree about Yuna but Ando? I hope you are not talking about post-2007! The only layback I enjoy from Ando was back in 2004.

[Marco]

Originally Posted by ainouta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzsb187hI7g

And that's probably the best layback of any of the Asian ladies, including Mao.

That was the biggest insult to Mao (asthetically) and Yuna (technically) ever.

Originally Posted by pinky166

In addition to Min-Jung's layback spin I also quite like Anna Ovcharova's (see at 1:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-c5...ext=1&index=12) even though she doesn't have the best arch in it either, it's really pretty, IMO.

The best Soviet layback is definitely Marakova's. Fast and beautiful. Slutskaya's classic pre-COP layback has a great arch and wonderful speed too. Honourable mentions to Lavrenchuk.

[MR-FAN]

Originally Posted by Marco

Agree about Yuna but Ando? I hope you are not talking about post-2007! The only layback I enjoy from Ando was back in 2004.

Before her shoulder injury, she was capable of a great COP layback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFIJ...x=0&playnext=1

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by Marco

That was the biggest insult to Mao (asthetically) and Yuna (technically) ever.



The best Soviet layback is definitely Marakova's. Fast and beautiful. Slutskaya's classic pre-COP layback has a great arch and wonderful speed too. Honourable mentions to Lavrenchuk.

The poster may have meant the ending position of her layback spin, in the bielman position, all the positions in that spin are technically part of her layback spin, and the final position in the biellman is quite beautiful - stretched, flexible, fast and I love how she looks at her foot . Also her litheness makes the spin that much more beautiful.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by pinky166

I agree the arch in her back could be improved, but I find her layback very aesthetically pleasing regardless.

Based on what?

She's not extending her free foot, the arch is very poor and her rotation speed is nothing special either.

[RumbleFish]

Min-Jung has improved a lot, but I doubt she will get a second GP spot.
GP spots are all about politics and Korean federation just isn't capable of getting it for her.
IIRC, Na-Young Kim almost blew a spot in the 08 COR due to their administrative errors, before skating fans raised the issue on the Internet.

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by RumbleFish

Min-Jung has improved a lot, but I doubt she will get a second GP spot.
GP spots are all about politics and Korean federation just isn't capable of getting it for her.
IIRC, Na-Young Kim almost blew a spot in the 08 COR due to their administrative errors, before skating fans raised the issue on the Internet.

Na Young Kim DID get a 2nd GP in 2008 after someone pulled out though...

Plus who else will they send to CoC? Dobbs, Musademba, and Helgesson are already assigned to it, and I tend to think Australia (Cheltzie) and Italy (Valentina) and Britain (McCorkell) don't have the most political power in this situation either. So I mean unless they want to send Gizmo or a Canadian, I woudn't be surprised to see Min-Jung get a 2nd assignment, plus her SB is a lot higher on the list than most of those other girls.

COR may be more up in the air but I doubt an American lady will get sent there...

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Based on what?

She's not extending her free foot, the arch is very poor and her rotation speed is nothing special either.

I like the turned out attitude position and the lovely stretched biellman at the end, very elegant and ballet-like.

[RumbleFish]

Originally Posted by pinky166

Plus who else will they send to CoC? Dobbs, Musademba, and Helgesson are already assigned to it, and I tend to think Australia (Cheltzie) and Italy (Valentina) and Britain (McCorkell) don't have the most political power in this situation either. So I mean unless they want to send Gizmo or a Canadian, I woudn't be surprised to see Min-Jung get a 2nd assignment, plus her SB is a lot higher on the list than most of those other girls.

Chinese might prefer Cheltzie since her father has Chinese ethnicity.
Cheltzie has her own merits being a pretty skater and having lots of potential just like Min-Jung, though she might have to go for double jumps in her routine due to stupid new rules limiting number of double axels to 2.

[pinky166]

Originally Posted by RumbleFish

Chinese might prefer Cheltzie since her father has Chinese ethnicity.
Cheltzie has her own merits being a pretty skater and having lots of potential just like Min-Jung, though she might have to go for double jumps in her routine due to stupid new rules limiting number of double axels to 2.

Oh, I did not think of that, good point. I quite like Cheltzie as well as Min-Jung, I think they both have a lot of potential and are pleasant to watch. Also I have heard Cheltzie is capable of landing 3f in practice, so she may just attempt that jump in her FS so she doesn't have to do a double.