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  1. #21
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    Maybe since I really need the money I'll ask the owner to take me out of the after-school program. She has me doing a million other things anyway including designing an SAT online course that has to be done by ... this Friday (because the programmer for the SAT course is quitting on Friday). I think I will call ACS anonymously and if that gets me fired, so be it.

    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."

    The troubled boy was once making a mess and I told him to clean it up. I said I wasn't his mother. He said "my mother doesn't clean up my mess, my butler cleans up my mess." I told him his butler isn't hired to clean up his messes either. He said "Yes he is if he doesn't I tattle and get him fired."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    With what you described am not sure why do you define the kid as SELF harming. Sounds like he is harming the other kids much more than himself.
    ita he sounds like a terror whose pets always end up dead
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  3. #23

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    It sounds as though this disturbed child knows exactly what he is doing; even if he doesn't realize the consequences of his behaviour,
    Even if you have yourself "removed" from the situation, you may be liable if you don't report what is happening to the authorities.

    I believe you have already received wise counsel from others, upthread.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Maybe since I really need the money I'll ask the owner to take me out of the after-school program. She has me doing a million other things anyway including designing an SAT online course that has to be done by ... this Friday (because the programmer for the SAT course is quitting on Friday).
    Speaking as a designer and sometime programmer, as well as someone who works with programmers....that online course is not getting made if the design is finalized the day the programmer is quitting. She should have finished the design more like, last month.

    Point is, it sounds like a hopelessly disorganized mess, and isn't worth staying for.

    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."

    The troubled boy was once making a mess and I told him to clean it up. I said I wasn't his mother. He said "my mother doesn't clean up my mess, my butler cleans up my mess." I told him his butler isn't hired to clean up his messes either. He said "Yes he is if he doesn't I tattle and get him fired."
    Yeah, the danger of parents with far too much money. Although I have friends who came from money and they are nothing like this.

    Well, aside from my college roommate who tried to get her mom to FedEx her Dove body wash from NYC to LA (she was nice, but totally spoiled), and who ate more vitamins than actual food because her nutritionist told her so. But she was literally the only one!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    It sounds as though this disturbed child knows exactly what he is doing; even if he doesn't realize the consequences of his behavior,
    I had that exact same thought as I was reading this:

    The troubled boy was once making a mess and I told him to clean it up. I said I wasn't his mother. He said "my mother doesn't clean up my mess, my butler cleans up my mess." I told him his butler isn't hired to clean up his messes either. He said "Yes he is if he doesn't I tattle and get him fired."
    What a mouthy little brat. I would've gotten slapped if I spoke that way to an adult when I was his age, or said/done the other things mentioned here. And rightly so. IMO there isn't a thing wrong with him except that he is a master manipulator. Scary to think of what he will be like when he reaches adulthood if this doesn't get seriously nipped in the bud right now. His parents, as well as the person running this program, are not doing him ANY favors by enabling him the way they are.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    It sounds as though this disturbed child knows exactly what he is doing; even if he doesn't realize the consequences of his behaviour,
    It sounds like there are no consequences for him.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

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    You are a mandated reporter and cannot be fired or taken to court for reporting this. You should contact whichever agency in your state handles abuse cases. Document all discussions and telephone conversations with the owner and the state agency. Good luck and keep us posted.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."
    "
    Really depends on what the treatment plan is. Often treatment before the permanent teeth are in can make the amount of time in braces on permanent teeth much shorter (which is good, since uneven staining on these teeth lasts!) and less painful. It can also help the permanent teeth grow in correctly, minimizing the need for braces again in the future at all. I don't think braces on a kid is any different than retainers or other appliances- it depends what the need is. Almost everyone I know had some sort of orthodontic treatment before they had all their permanent teeth, and then had more once they had those.

    Their orthodontist probably has a better handle on this than a tutor. It doesn't mean he's fleecing them.


    Which is not at all minimizing the fact that these kids in general are spoiled brats.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."
    Ditto what skittl said. This is more often the approach these days--often times two shorter courses of treatment rather than one long course works better and involves a lot less dramatic treatment than if you wait until all the teeth are grown in. Does not indicate fleecing necessarily.
    (Though I agree this kid is a PILL. I would certainly report the inappropriate touching of other students, absolutely.)
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Really depends on what the treatment plan is. Often treatment before the permanent teeth are in can make the amount of time in braces on permanent teeth much shorter (which is good, since uneven staining on these teeth lasts!) and less painful. It can also help the permanent teeth grow in correctly, minimizing the need for braces again in the future at all. I don't think braces on a kid is any different than retainers or other appliances- it depends what the need is. Almost everyone I know had some sort of orthodontic treatment before they had all their permanent teeth, and then had more once they had those.

    Their orthodontist probably has a better handle on this than a tutor. It doesn't mean he's fleecing them.


    Which is not at all minimizing the fact that these kids in general are spoiled brats.
    My only regret in life is not brushing and flossing better when I had my braces. I have such bad teeth now.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think I will call ACS anonymously and if that gets me fired, so be it.
    You'll really need the money when (not if) there's a lawsuit. Quit this job. Don't call social services anonymously--I assume that's what ACS is. Call them but ask for confidentiality. You'll need a record of you calling social services in order to avoid legal problems in a lawsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."
    This has become common. I do think it's often unnecessary. The goal is a straight set of teeth, and for anyone I know, one round in the teenage years achieved that goal. But I wouldn't judge their parents on this basis alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    Speaking as a designer and sometime programmer, as well as someone who works with programmers....that online course is not getting made if the design is finalized the day the programmer is quitting. She should have finished the design more like, last month.

    Point is, it sounds like a hopelessly disorganized mess, and isn't worth staying for.
    Precisely. This place is a mess, and you won't be able to singlehandedly change that. Get out.

  12. #32

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    Canbelto, whether you feel you continue to work for this owner in a different area and not quit doesn't change the fact you are obliged to report both this child, and the owner and other adults behaviour. I would say to more than one place (child protective services, and the place that gives this place licences to work with children). Failing that, based on his behaviour towards the girls, I would actually consider the police as well, but that is a last resort. The owner/other adults are knowingly allowing inappropriate touching of other children (it sounds like) and that is illegal, children doing the touching or not. At the moment, you are also allowing it by not doing anything.

    I wouldn't try and analyse the why - you're not a psychologist - and focus on the WHAT. Actually there are a lot of possible reasons for this kind of behaviour, and speculating what they could be (especially over the internet) doesn't change anything. You need to report it.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    Whatever you do, QUIT IMMEDIATELY. There sounds like there is nothing you can do within the school to change the situation. There is no benefit to you or the students if you stay. The only way you can positively change the situation is by going outside the school.

    DOCUMENT YOUR ASS OFF. I don't know what state you're in. You may want to check if the state allows you to secretly record a conversation. The owners will try to place the blame squarely on your shoulders. You need to protect yourself.

    CONTACT AN ATTORNEY to see what you can do to prevent future liability when (not if) there is a lawsuit. As you said, the parents in this school are very wealthy. They will have the best attorneys that money can buy. And like I said earlier, your posting on this internet forum may be used as evidence against you if you don't report it and this child ends up seriously hurting another child. Contact the attorney no later than the end of the week.
    It doesn't seem fair to expect canbelto to pay a lawyer, especially since she may be out of a paycheck. I would think that Child Services would be the party to pay a lawyer.

    Beyond reporting to the appropriate parties, the situation is not her responsibility.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Maybe since I really need the money I'll ask the owner to take me out of the after-school program. She has me doing a million other things anyway including designing an SAT online course that has to be done by ... this Friday (because the programmer for the SAT course is quitting on Friday). I think I will call ACS anonymously and if that gets me fired, so be it.
    If the situation is serious, as you laid it out to be initially, it is your responsibility to report. Period. That is your responsibility as a staff member, and as an adult who is supposed to be guarding the welfare of the children.
    If the kid is just a pain in the a$$ - that is a different story.
    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I think affluenza is a good term to describe the kids. For instance two of my favorites are two girls who are 7 and 8, respectively. They both have braces, and not all their teeth have grown in. I told them they don't need braces, because their full set of teeth haven't grown in. They said their orthodontist said they need braces 'twice', once before their full set of teeth grow in and once afterwards. I kind of chuckled to myself and thought "wow your orthodontist is really fleecing you."
    Not quite sure why you are offering dental advice. Can't be part of your job description. My grand daughter is on her third set of braces, and her brother is on his second. The first set was to make as much room as possible for the permanent teeth to come in. The second set was to handle things after the permanent teeth were in. My daughter had a permanent retainer / separator in her mouth at 4. Allowed her to skip braces by creating a larger upper jaw. It is sad that you thought process led you to conclude that you undermined a professional's opinion, and that you had such a judgment not based on fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    The troubled boy was once making a mess and I told him to clean it up. I said I wasn't his mother. He said "my mother doesn't clean up my mess, my butler cleans up my mess." I told him his butler isn't hired to clean up his messes either. He said "Yes he is if he doesn't I tattle and get him fired
    Sounds like the kid is a smart a$$ed brat....but that is way different than self-harm and abused. And maybe he is all of it.

    Years ago, I was babysitting my grandkids, and Max (then 3 or 4) came out of his bedroom in the morning. I sent him back to make his bed. He went in, then came back out, hand on hip, and said...."I don't make my bed...Maria makes it." My response: Not in this universe, buddy! And the bed got made.

    I think it would be smart to decide:
    1. Is the kid really in danger, or a danger to others (in which case, you have a responsibility to step in)
    2. Is the kid just a pain. In which case, ignore, see if you can change positions, or get out of dodge (so you don't get blamed when the $hit hits the fan...and it will, and it always runs down hill.
    3. It is annoying, and I will do the best I can, and it will be over soon.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  15. #35

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    Taking away the self-harm, if this child is deliberately running into girls and squeezing their nipples, that needs to be reported. That's not just being a brat, that's not just negative attention-seeking (even if that is the reason for it), that's serious stuff that you are obliged to report. In my opinion, and this comes from someone who has been falsely accused before, it is better to over report than under report (both to protect you, and all children involved). This kid needs help, definitely, but the girls' whose nipples he is squeezing should not be subject to that under any circumstances, special needs child or not, and they need to know it's not okay, and their parents should be informed and also take appropriate action.

    I think the self-harm, which is also considered self-harm even if the underlying reasons are negative attention seeking (the reasons for negative attention seeking are varied and many, but one is abuse), should also be documented and reported, because it may (should) result in further investigation and possible psychological assessment.

    It doesn't matter whether you think the end result will be nothing, whether the parents are rich, whether the kids have braces or not, whether the kid has ADHD or any other special need, this needs to be fully reported, and you have a responsibility to report it.

  16. #36

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    ^^^All of this!
    Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...

  17. #37
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    I'm not a psychiatrist, but this sounds much more than ADAD, ADHD, RAD, autism or just bratty, attention seeking behaviors. This sounds like a sociopathic person. True sociopathic persons are difficult to treat, , especially when those around him refuse to admit a problem or to seek appropriate treatment.

    Although, we should all be mandated reporters, it may not transfer from state to state or country. Original poster is in a difficult situation, if she needs income and there are few if any other options for her to be employed in her field in the area.

    Document what you tried to do to 1. Report to parents, administration and any blocking efforts by administration to report (yes there may even be policies stating how potential suspected abuse is to be reported -that only administration of schools are to report, etc.), 2.what you have done in the classroom to protect others, 3. Your concerns and 4. A request to transfer to another position because of the situation

  18. #38
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    I think you have gotten excellent advice. Whether or not you quit, is your choice. Though I can't imagine you are enjoying this work environment, it is a paycheck. So, you have to evaluate whether or not you are in a position to quit without a job lined up and realizing you might not get a recommendation from your employer (though you might not want one). As to reporting the child, absolutely! You, not only, want to try to get help for the child and his victims, you need to protect yourself. I am not sure that you, personally, could be sued, but it's not worth finding out the hard way. You need to document that you have approached your supervisors and that they prevented you from approaching the family. Was anyone around when it happened? And I think it's a good idea to contact former employees. You might be able to report as a group.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by once_upon View Post
    I'm not a psychiatrist, but this sounds much more than ADAD, ADHD, RAD, autism or just bratty, attention seeking behaviors. This sounds like a sociopathic person. True sociopathic persons are difficult to treat, , especially when those around him refuse to admit a problem or to seek appropriate treatment.
    I thought that, too. I've dealt with one person (adult) who clearly is sociopathic and, thankfully, he is out of my life now.

    If that is the course this kid is on, I whole-heartedly pity anyone who has to deal with him, now or in the future. Especially the women who get involved with him when he gets old enough to be in relationships.

    IMO the reason sociopathic people are "hard to treat" is because they are compulsive liars who will bend reality (and therefore the truth) to suit their needs whenever they can benefit from it. From my own experience, I don't think they can be treated or "fixed." They would have to admit that they have a problem, and blame shifting and gaslighting is another tool they use, all the while saying that "I'm not the one with the problem, YOU are!"

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    I'm not familiar with the ACS or children services in the U.S, I was under the impression that it is to report abuse/neglect of children by adults... Do you report children abusing other children to ACS as well? I tried googling this, but couldn't find relevant information...

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