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  1. #41

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    All abuse should be reported, if not, what about the children being abused? It doesn't matter who is doing it, abuse is abuse. Legally it's treated differently, but the parents of those girls have a right to know and take action and the girls have a right to be safe from abuse.

    I can't believe "sociopath" is being mentioned. From what some people are writing, more than half the kids I work with would be considered sociopaths. This kid has behaviour issues, including attention seeking, power issues and probably impulse control. He also seems have parents who are not actively parenting and who seem to have little interest in him. He's doesn't present, to me, as a sociopath, but as a child who is desperate for attention because his parents neglect to give him the care he deserves. I feel for him; parenting is a responsibility that should be taken seriously, not given to a driver and butler to do because the parents have more important things. There should be nothing more important than your child.

    I'd love to work with this child (and his family, though this seems unlikely) - these kids, IME, usually turn out to be fun, loving, and really resilient, not sociopaths.

    His behaviour still needs to be reported, and so does the behaviour by the adults involved. They should be ashamed, encouraging this. The kid is not even 10 and he is under their care. They need to start caring.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I can't believe "sociopath" is being mentioned. From what some people are writing, more than half the kids I work with would be considered sociopaths. This kid has behaviour issues, including attention seeking, power issues and probably impulse control. He also seems have parents who are not actively parenting and who seem to have little interest in him. He's doesn't present, to me, as a sociopath, but as a child who is desperate for attention because his parents neglect to give him the care he deserves.
    Being a sociopath and being abused/neglected aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they're probably mildly positively correlated. Based on the description, I agree with you that it's premature to infer that he's a sociopath. If anything, sociopaths are usually skilled at charming people, good at acting, and can, as one parent put it, lie so well that they can steal your watch off your wrist and convince you that you're still wearing it.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    Being a sociopath and being abused/neglected aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they're probably mildly positively correlated. Based on the description, I agree with you that it's premature to infer that he's a sociopath. If anything, sociopaths are usually skilled at charming people, good at acting, and can, as one parent put it, lie so well that they can steal your watch off your wrist and convince you that you're still wearing it.
    I never said they were mutually exclusive, I said that I can't believe that's what some people have thought based on the information we've received. Such an extreme over reaction; like I said, more than half of my kids have similar or worse behaviours, and I've never even considered the possibility of any of the kids we work with being sociopaths. This kid is not lying or stealing, he's totally open about his misbehaviour and just doesn't care. He'd might lie to his parents about it, as would many children. But in this case, his parents aren't even being told. By considering the label of sociopath for this child, it's also considering that his case is hopeless, and I find it sad that some are saying that, without considering the most probable alternative - this kid has behaviour issues that can be addressed and result in the child being without major behaviour issues, or any other workable alternatives. I find it really sad that this behaviour is all some need to immediately think "sociopath". We're talking about a young, un-assessed child with behaviour issues here, and adults allowing and encouraging those behaviours, nothing at all screams anything but, "report it, shame on those adults, and do everything possible for the children involved".

  4. #44
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    Guys well I was too busy doing other stuff for them (including creating an online SAT course that has to be done by ... tomorrow) to teach, but I plan on having a talk with the owner tomorrow and if the talk doesn't go well, I'm quitting. It doesn't even have to do with the kid (he didn't come the last two days), but the fact that I think they're trying to stiff me of money. It just occurred to me today that no one had asked me to sign a W-9 and I actually had to ask the secretary. Then the owner gave me the runaround about my schedule for summer session, and I found out that enrollment is so low that she's not sure there's even going to be a summer session. I'm getting the suspicion they just wanted me to do the SAT online program and babysit the kids for the rest of the school year and were planning on laying me off anyway during the summer. So I'm going to ask the owner tomorrow what her plans are, and if I'm not satisfied, I'm quitting. I feel like this place is a scam.

  5. #45

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    So are you going to report it, or not? Whether the talk goes well, or you quit or not, whether they're paying you or are a scam, you are obliged to report.

  6. #46
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    Obligation aside, and everything else as well, I think the question you have to ask yourself is the following: if something happens, to the kid or to another kid because of that kid, could you really live with yourself if you didn't report it?

    Yes, reporting something that might give you personal complications can be scary, yes, nothing might come out of it, but if you report it, you can always tell yourself, you've done everything you could and should have. No matter what happens afterwards.

    From where I stand, this would be a no-brainer.
    Last edited by ballettmaus; 06-26-2014 at 04:35 AM.

  7. #47
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    Well I just called CPS. Their "system is down" so they couldn't even run the child through the system to see if there's an open case. But they want me to get the child's home address if possible. They say that a private after school program is not enough of a location for them, they need a public school or home address.

    Any ideas on how I can get this info from the owner?

  8. #48

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    Ask the kid his school or address, or other staff members. I find it hard to believe (and really amazing) that if you can give the exact location of your after school programme, and this is where the behaviour is happening, that that location is not enough. I would threaten (and follow through, if needed) to go to the police if they say your information is not enough.

    The owner will not give you any information because she's directly involved and letting this happen.

  9. #49
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    They say they need a "guaranteed" place. An after school program is not a "guarantee." They say tegu need to know the parents or school, period. Maybe I can check his binder or the computer system at work.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    If anything, sociopaths are usually skilled at charming people, good at acting, and can, as one parent put it, lie so well that they can steal your watch off your wrist and convince you that you're still wearing it.
    Shit, yeah! And every sociopath's worst nightmare is to meet up with someone who actually remembers everything they say and do, and who, over time, becomes immune to their charm and the "I'm the BEST person you ever met!" routine, to the point where they can see through it. And when you confront them and are no-nonsense enough about it ("I ain't gonna be moved on this!") they freak out because they know they are losing control of the situation. The last confrontation I had with the s'path I was involved with was like that. We were arguing over text and... he was reading my words and getting them wrong! I really wish that confrontation had taken place face-to-face so I could have seen his face when I told him he didn't have me as fooled as he thought he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates
    attention seeking, power issues and probably impulse control.
    Well... duh!! That's a s'path in a nutshell! That's why when they get into a relationships they choose SO's who are weak-willed, and have self-esteem/self-image issues. The type of person least likely to challenge them even when they do see discrepancies between what the s'path says is true and what the real truth actually is. I may have been that type of person when Joe and I met, but during the years when things were being revealed to me and I was slowly putting the pieces of the puzzle together, I gradually hardened to him so that, in the end, I could do what I needed to do to extricate myself from that situation.

  11. #51

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    I'm surprised social services would be unable to locate him unless perhaps he has a really common name and/or has parents who are illegal immigrants. Maybe they're being lazy. Have you tried asking for his birthday? If you give the date to them, they should be able to pull up his birth records, which will include his mother's name, and track down his mother. It'll obviously take more work on their part, but that's their job.

  12. #52
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    I agree with Angelskates that it's too early to sic a "sociopath" diagnosis on this kid. Many children act out and compulsively lie and are brats. He's not even 10, and from what canbelto has told us, his parents are beyond hopeless. I personally believe that true sociopaths are born, not raised. If they were raised to behave badly, there is still hope for them. But there has to be an intervention.

    canbelto, that workplace sounds like a mess. Get the information and get out of there, I don't think you owe them anything at this point.

  13. #53
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    Point is moot. Place is going out of business for the summer, not enough students enrolled. Out of a job.

  14. #54

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    How tragic for the children who were enrolled, where will they get services for the summer? And will the place revert back into a regular program for the normal school year in the fall? I think it still should be reported.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    So are you going to report it, or not? Whether the talk goes well, or you quit or not, whether they're paying you or are a scam, you are obliged to report.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  16. #56
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    I'm going to report them to the city's child safety agency. I forgot to say that when I left today I saw a girl crying hysterically because two boys had body slammed her into the wall and the adults did nothing ...

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    I'm going to report them to the city's child safety agency. I forgot to say that when I left today I saw a girl crying hysterically because two boys had body slammed her into the wall and the adults did nothing ...
    I would consider also going to the police.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    How tragic for the children who were enrolled, where will they get services for the summer? And will the place revert back into a regular program for the normal school year in the fall? I think it still should be reported.
    I don't know, I think this is lucky rather than tragic. Kids throwing other kids against walls, kids squeezing other kids nipples...why is it tragic this place is closing? The adults there do nothing, or laugh, encourage kids to abuse other kids. It's disgusting. The owner knows, and does nothing but encourage silence. This place SHOULD close.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    How tragic for the children who were enrolled, where will they get services for the summer? And will the place revert back into a regular program for the normal school year in the fall? I think it still should be reported.
    I don't see it as tragic, at all. Clearly, the adults in charge were incompetent and negligent. The kids are better off. Based on canbelto describing the child, in question, it does not appear to be a school for those with some wealth. I am sure they will find another situation for these children. Or, possibly, their parents will have to parent for a while.
    Last edited by cruisin; 06-27-2014 at 04:38 PM.

  20. #60
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    I wonder if he is abused at home. That would be my guess.

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