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  1. #261
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    Sasha would have won nationals in 2003, 2004, and 2005 if she skated clean. In 2003 she made too many mistakes to even beat Sarah who was a shadow of the skater she was the year before. In 2004 she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall and another small error, before Michelle skated. 2005 was already discussed.

    I believe the USFSA was ready to hand Sasha the title-she just never could get her part of the job done. Same thing happened at 2004 and 2006 worlds (She lost the world championships to Kimmie Meissner of all people.)...these championships were literally being handed to her and she couldn't do it.

    People can blame Kwan being a "judges pet" or whatever but Sasha was losing titles left and right even without Michelle in the mix.

  2. #262
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    Sasha would have won nationals in 2003, 2004, and 2005 if she skated clean. In 2003 she made too many mistakes to even beat Sarah who was a shadow of the skater she was the year before. Going into the competition she was the new GPF champion and dominated her GP events. She was totally the favorite entering that competition. In 2004 she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall and another small error, before Michelle skated. 2005 was already discussed.

    I believe the USFSA was ready to hand Sasha the title-she just never could get her part of the job done. Same thing happened at 2004 and 2006 worlds (She lost the world championships to Kimmie Meissner of all people.)...these championships were literally being handed to her and she couldn't do it.

    People can blame Kwan being a "judges pet" or whatever but Sasha was losing titles left and right even without Michelle in the mix.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Sasha would have won nationals in 2003, 2004, and 2005 if she skated clean.
    You can add 2000 and 2010 to that list. In 2000 she would have needed Kwan to make mistakes and 2010 Nagasu to make mistakes, but she got them, and would have won both those times as well had she gone clean herself. So she could have 6 National titles now, and as many as 9 had she skated the whole 2007-2010 quad like she should have done as there was no reason for her to retire at that point. She was only 21, she had no injuries or physical problems, there was no pro skating boom, most of her older international rivals were retired, she still didnt have a major title which she could have numerous more shots to atleast try for, so WTF was she retiring for. Was she really scared by Kimmie's world title and thinking maybe she couldnt beat Kimmie in the future? Internationally she would have to face Kim and Asada so wouldnt become the oe to beat anymore (if she ever was), but it is not like Sasha ever dominated internationally anyway so had to be scared of losing dominance which never existed. She could continue striving to just win something big sometime, which she had not done yet.

    The 2004 worlds, 2006 Olympics, 2006 worlds were all there for the taking for her as well, but she faltered badly and took silver each time instead. The 2002 Olympics, 2002 worlds, 2003 worlds, gold not certain, but a medal was for sure there for the taking, and she might have had a chance at gold who knows, but she blew all those as well, finishing 4th in each when she should have atleast been on the podium in all of them skating decently.

    On the other hand I feel sorry for Sasha at times since it seems all the focus is on her wasted potential and not living up to the U.S hype which might have been overly ambitious at times anyway, and not on the great things she did achieve- an Olympic medal, many world medals, many grand prix wins. It seems she is treated like a failure where most with similar credentials would be raved as a huge success. Someone like Suguri is probably way happier with her career than Sasha, even though she achieved significantly less. Butyrskaya achieved about similar (Maria got the world title Sasha didnt, Sasha got the Oly medal that Maria failed to manage), and is also viewed as a great success story in sharp contrast to the relative failure/dissapointment Sasha is. I dont think she achieved her potential but she wasnt a total failure or waste either. That would be someone like the subject of this thread- Tonya Harding, or her younger version Nicole Bobek.
    Last edited by rollingrace; 06-19-2014 at 12:12 AM.

  4. #264
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    Sasha should still be set with an Olympic silver medal! Heaven knows Liz Manley was awful, got fat, and was still skating in shows and tv events! Sasha may have underachieved, but she's still the most graceful skater on the ice since Fleming and Lynn; a true ballerina out there!

  5. #265
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    You should read Liz Manley's book. It documents well her turbulent personal life.

  6. #266

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    I suppose this is as good as any thread to say it ... I am done lamenting over what Tonya Harding might have been ... She is a National Champion, a World Medalist, an Olympian, and the first woman to perform a 3A in the short program. Her technique developed from 1981 to 1989 was admirable and a rare achievement. That is a good career. Like many Olympians, she has notoriety from which she can make money, so more power to her if she pays her bills by appearing on Celebrity Dumbass because apparently there is a market for it. I wish her, her marriage, and child the best for the rest of their lives.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-07-2014 at 02:13 AM.

  7. #267

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    There will be a blurb about 'the saga' on the TV special "The 90's" on the National Geographic Channel on Monday, July 7 at 9p-11p EST (this is US; and not sure what other countries broadcast NatGeo channel; have to check your lineup). "The 90's" is a 3-part series about events of The 90's so it will just be a short clip, but it looks like new interview footage from the commercials. There will be numerous repeats on NatGeo. Search for the "Friends and Enemies" episode of the series.

    Fun. I always look forward to new interviews .... to see what has changed.

  8. #268

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    National Geographic ... ... I can see it now ... some British commentator likening Nancy and Tonya to Tanzanian chimps ...

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Sasha would have won nationals in 2003, 2004, and 2005 if she skated clean. In 2003 she made too many mistakes to even beat Sarah who was a shadow of the skater she was the year before. In 2004 she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall and another small error, before Michelle skated. 2005 was already discussed.

    I believe the USFSA was ready to hand Sasha the title-she just never could get her part of the job done. Same thing happened at 2004 and 2006 worlds (She lost the world championships to Kimmie Meissner of all people.)...these championships were literally being handed to her and she couldn't do it.

    People can blame Kwan being a "judges pet" or whatever but Sasha was losing titles left and right even without Michelle in the mix.
    Don't forget the 2006 Olympics. Maybe that wasn't her event to lose totally going in, but with how the competition played out she had that in the bag if she skated to her full potential. Probably even her nationals performance that year would have done it.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Sasha would have won nationals in 2003, 2004, and 2005 if she skated clean. In 2003 she made too many mistakes to even beat Sarah who was a shadow of the skater she was the year before. Going into the competition she was the new GPF champion and dominated her GP events. She was totally the favorite entering that competition. In 2004 she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall and another small error, before Michelle skated. 2005 was already discussed.
    If they were willing to give her the 2003 title over Michelle they would have put her over a very subpar Sarah even with her falls and mistakes. Add to that the 2003 worlds qualifying round where Sasha skated clean with 7 triples, Michelle had only 6 and stumbled, and Michelle was 1st and Sasha 3rd in their pool. Those two things combined make it clear the judges would not favor a perfect Sasha over a good Michelle in 2003.

    Sasha had a better shot of the 2000 title than the 2003 one.

  11. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by joubertelegant View Post
    If they were willing to give her the 2003 title over Michelle they would have put her over a very subpar Sarah even with her falls and mistakes. Add to that the 2003 worlds qualifying round where Sasha skated clean with 7 triples, Michelle had only 6 and stumbled, and Michelle was 1st and Sasha 3rd in their pool. Those two things combined make it clear the judges would not favor a perfect Sasha over a good Michelle in 2003.

    Sasha had a better shot of the 2000 title than the 2003 one.
    It is quite a downer to see two great skaters enter into a discussion in a thread dedicated to the forever banned - loser of the centjury/
    Morry Stillwell

  12. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    National Geographic ... ... I can see it now ... some British commentator likening Nancy and Tonya to Tanzanian chimps ...
    No, just the usual, Tonya was interviewed (of course) and more blah, blah, ad nauseum about her "ex and his stupid friends" and how they could build a security business off her her ("everyone always uses me..."). The most fun was Connie Chung basically letting the viewer know what a canny player Tonya could be and making it obvious that she could not stand Tonya (she mentioned the interview that Tonya walked out on because Connie wouldn't go for her wide-eyed innocent act and wanted to talk about the incident). Connie's telling of her reaction when Tonya walked out?? "YAYYYYY!!!!"
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    It is quite a downer to see two great skaters enter into a discussion in a thread dedicated to the forever banned - loser of the centjury/
    Well nobody is even that interested in Tonya these days, hence the discussion turns to other skaters. Isnt loser of the century a bit mean though. I hope Tonya doesn't read that as it would probably hurt her feelings to hear a former USFSA leader say that about her.

  14. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by joubertelegant View Post
    Well nobody is even that interested in Tonya these days, hence the discussion turns to other skaters. Isnt loser of the century a bit mean though. I hope Tonya doesn't read that as it would probably hurt her feelings to hear a former USFSA leader say that about her.
    That's nice of you to say, but after two people have traveled the world together they have figured out what they think of each other personally, and there is nothing that can change that.

  15. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by joubertelegant View Post
    Well nobody is even that interested in Tonya these days, hence the discussion turns to other skaters. Isnt loser of the century a bit mean though. I hope Tonya doesn't read that as it would probably hurt her feelings to hear a former USFSA leader say that about her.
    My views on Tonya have been developed thourgh many personal contacts and observations of her actions leading to her final life time ban. Blind fandom fails to recognize her for what she has become.
    Morry Stillwell

  16. #276

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    Obviously I admire her skating from 1985-1989, but at the same time I have come to believe that she was the proverbial horse that was lead to water but could not be made to drink.

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    My views on Tonya have been developed thourgh many personal contacts and observations of her actions leading to her final life time ban. Blind fandom fails to recognize her for what she has become.
    I am not even a Tonya fan. I just find that a rude and excessive label to give someone who could be reading in a public forum. JMO.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Obviously I admire her skating from 1985-1989, but at the same time I have come to believe that she was the proverbial horse that was lead to water but could not be made to drink.
    Her mother probably can take a lot of the blame for that. It is pretty much impossible to enter the crazy and devious world of figure skating without even having a halfway normal upbringing or feeling loved by one of your own parents.

  19. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladygagafan View Post
    Her mother probably can take a lot of the blame for that. It is pretty much impossible to enter the crazy and devious world of figure skating without even having a halfway normal upbringing or feeling loved by one of your own parents.
    I think this interprets the situation well. However, it is another thing entirely to have to deal with somebody acting out for whatever reason.

    However, the past can not be recaptured and Tonya has moved on. I actually just hope all her family's needs are met, and she can have some peace.

    Skating wise, I think there is a lot to be said for what she actually did, but it is completely worthless to talk about what might have been.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    There will be a blurb about 'the saga' on the TV special "The 90's" on the National Geographic Channel on Monday, July 7 at 9p-11p EST (this is US; and not sure what other countries broadcast NatGeo channel; have to check your lineup). "The 90's" is a 3-part series about events of The 90's so it will just be a short clip, but it looks like new interview footage from the commercials. There will be numerous repeats on NatGeo. Search for the "Friends and Enemies" episode of the series.
    Here is the 7-minute clip on youtube.

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