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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by riveredge View Post
    it's not really shocking to me.. KSU was hesitant to file a complaint in the first place.. and i wouldn't be surprised if speedy had something to do w/ it.. after all their golden goose is already retired..
    They still have some young promising skaters, you know.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    ^Senior Grand Prix events use the reverse order draw rules listed above.

    List of national federations that voted in favor of removing anonymous judging:
    https://twitter.com/_david_molina/st...30320022876161

    All six federations that host Senior Grand Prix events voted in favor of removing anonymous judging.
    Korea voted No?

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I doubt that associating the judges' names with their scores will prevent scandals.

    Instead of blaming anonymity, instead people who don't like the results will blame the specific judges who gave scores they don't agree with and will start looking for patterns based on nationality or anything else they know about the individual judges to posit conspiracy theories.
    Transparency is always better than secrecy.

  4. #124
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    Deleted
    Last edited by sfahrut; 06-13-2014 at 01:03 AM.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Transparency is always better than secrecy.
    Yes. Transparency allows for the possibility of discovering and addressing judging problems. The current anonymous, secret system removes any chance of identifying and catching cheaters.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    The current anonymous, secret system removes any chance of identifying and catching cheaters.
    And just as you'd expect, if a thief knows they cannot get caught, they will steal every time. And soon everyone has to cheat just to keep up.

    Figure skating has no future as a sport. That much is clear, and good riddance!

    Shows are another matter, thankfully.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    How do small federations like Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania, and Austria benefit from anonymous judging? On the rare occasions when they actually have competitive skaters
    You answered your own question without realizing it. These are often the Federations that are involved in collusion at the top. They have no important skaters, but they can earn favors and gifts by cooperating with larger feds.

    If anonymous judging goes away, these gifts will end but they will still have no top skaters.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToFarAwayTimes View Post
    And just as you'd expect, if a thief knows they cannot get caught, they will steal every time. And soon everyone has to cheat just to keep up.

    Figure skating has no future as a sport. That much is clear, and good riddance!

    Shows are another matter, thankfully.
    Who do you think develops show skaters. Get real
    Morry Stillwell

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToFarAwayTimes View Post
    You answered your own question without realizing it. These are often the Federations that are involved in collusion at the top. They have no important skaters, but they can earn favors and gifts by cooperating with larger feds.
    You fail to notice that the large Grand Pix Federations all voted for repeal of secret judging.
    Morry Stillwell

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    You fail to notice that the large Grand Pix Federations all voted for repeal of secret judging.
    I noticed of course. The large federations who are bribing the smaller ones and paying out of pocket would like to save some money, and the small federations who are receiving benefits are the ones who would like to continue receiving those benefits.

    What did YOU miss?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    You fail to notice that the large Grand Pix Federations all voted for repeal of secret judging.
    Major federations have no need to hide their favoritism toward their skaters. Only smaller federations care about "reputations" of being called someone's cronies.

  12. #132
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    Very to see the voter trends. So virtually all the big feds voted in favor of ending secret judging, and many of the small ones (north Europe, and....Korea?!?) ended up being the holdouts.

    Still though....unbelievable.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Major federations have no need to hide their favoritism toward their skaters. Only smaller federations care about "reputations" of being called someone's cronies.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToFarAwayTimes View Post
    I noticed of course. The large federations who are bribing the smaller ones and paying out of pocket would like to save some money, and the small federations who are receiving benefits are the ones who would like to continue receiving those benefits.

    What did YOU miss?
    With those attitudes you might as well put up or ... be quiet because you can't see any upside.

    I think it is very interesting, if not anything else, that the Grand Prix hosts were voted down. I would not venture to explain it beyond that it must represent a deep political divide and possibly some very creative maneuvering.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-13-2014 at 04:24 AM.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    With those attitudes you might as well put up or ... be quiet because you can't see any upside.
    Ooo be wery wery quiet because you might now get attacked for expressing a point of view that is somewhat balanced.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  15. #135
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    Bard can express any point of view they want, same as anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    With those attitudes you might as well put up or ... be quiet because you can't see any upside.
    I will both put up and shut up. I will not watch another ISU competition, or attend one, or contribute to them in any manner whatsoever. They are not competitions in the true sense of the word, they are political farces, and they are not a real sport. If you feel otherwise, feel free to continue following figure skating "sport", but as you can see, you are among an ever decreasing crowd.

    Morry will gladly tell me "bye" and that's fine, but as more and more of us leave figure skating to never come back, you all lose the right to say "what do we have to do to get more people in the stands? and watching on tv? and interested in figure skating?" Because we've told you what you have to do, and the leadership and apparently the community are not interested in those honest answers. They are more interested in shuffling the deck chairs on the sinking ship.

    Meanwhile, I will be happy to watch shows and follow any skater, so long as they are not competing in a sanctioned, staged competition.

  16. #136

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    Well bye bye then. Have a nice life.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Well bye bye then. Have a nice life.
    You know what's funny? God has a system in place to deal with corruption. It's called death. If people could live forever, there would inevitably be those like Cinquanta who would worm their way into power and never relinquish it. They would cheat and bribe and cajole and resort to any and all means necessary, and their cronies would do the same, and nothing in the world would ever change. In that sense, we can be thankful for death.

    Yours and others comments like "bye, have a nice life" reminds me how I look around the stands at a figure skating competition, and all I see these days are old people. Gray hair, gray hair, gray hair everywhere. The farcical "sport" of figure skating seems to never change or be willing to change. The corrupt stay in power and they keep power, and are happy to drive their product into the ground and tell everyone else they are not allowed to be part of the club.

    But now those that are left are mostly all old and on the verge of also leaving the club, although in their case it will be involuntarily. In the meantime, I will have a nice life, and hopefully a long one. Enjoy.

  18. #138
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    I think judges from smaller countries are just cowardly. They are afraid that any or all of the big Federations will call their names after an unfavorable score. So imagine that a Korean judge gives Mao Asada all 8s for PCS, she or he is going to get names called by Japanese media and fans, but he or she probably really wants to do it, and their fed probably wants them to do it...

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by analia View Post
    I think judges from smaller countries are just cowardly.
    I guess that must be why huge countries such as Andorra, Armenia, Belgium, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Serbia, Slovenia and Switzerland all voted to remove anonymous judging.....
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  20. #140
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    If there are still Finnish posters on here that have connections and know why Finland voted no then that might give a clearer picture as to why it didn't pass.

    Sometimes it's not about the big picture (top elite skating) but about how it affects their interests on another level. If you look at who voted yes vs no I would guess a lot would group into smaller nations who work together on a grass roots level.

    And you can't ignore that Italy voted no as well. And Italy=Cinquanta. Because while some people may not want to believe it he can certainly throw a temper tantrum if he doesn't like the way you vote.
    Tessa and Scott: Thank you

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