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  1. #41

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    The country that has a working, functioning democracy and not an oligarchy perhaps? Even if there are policies I don't agree with (like capital punishment…in fact I hate the whole prison industrial complex), at least there is a political system that theoretically can make changes that people call for (even though my most cynical self thinks the system is skewed against most people).

    This is going to turn into that Sochi Olympic boycott thread and it will be a headache. But if it does turn into that, then I'm glad people are still paying attention.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyinna View Post
    Well but then sorry but Japan and US allows capital punishment and for me it's on the same level as not treating women equally to men, allowing racims and anti gay laws.

    So which country can host Worlds?
    In the US, capital punishment is largely decided on a state-by-state basis. So, you could support Worlds being hosted in a state that has banned capital punishment (I think Illinois is one, I'm not sure) while fighting an attempt to have Worlds hosted in states that allow it.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Is the idea that countries should not host international athletic events when they have no regard for human rights limited to selecting the host for Olys? IIRC, there was criticism of China (and later, Russia) being awarded the Olys because of their human rights abuses. Since that criticism, Russia still has the anti-gay law -- and Olys was followed by what is essentially an invasion of Ukraine. I hope that Worlds goes to Helsinki.
    If they started boycotting sports events in a country for its political views/actions, there will not be many choices left. Should the USA be banned from hosting any sporting events because it invaded Iraq? Or someone mentioned capital punishment? Because of racism?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    If they started boycotting sports events in a country for its political views/actions, there will not be many choices left. Should the USA be banned from hosting any sporting events because it invaded Iraq? Or someone mentioned capital punishment? Because of racism?
    So we should have no standards at all?
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  5. #45
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    Standards could start with countries that don't segregate, discriminate, and potentially criminalize athletes and officials because of race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96horseluvr View Post
    Does anyone know when the location will be announced? Sometime this summer?
    The ISU congress in Ireland decides it in July.

  7. #47
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    Well, they have to justify the reckless overspending somehow.

    ETA: I see Eislauffan confirming that Iceberg Palace is supposed to remain as a skating venue. I wonder. Will the Russian Figure Skating federation try to turn it into a training centre? Or will it be used for other sports?
    Last edited by Ziggy; 04-22-2014 at 08:19 PM.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyinna View Post
    Well but then sorry but Japan and US allows capital punishment and for me it's on the same level as not treating women equally to men, allowing racims and anti gay laws.

    So which country can host Worlds?
    Finland
    and most of the other EU countries, plus Norway, Iceland... There is plenty of them.

  9. #49

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    BTW, I'm not advocating that countries must pass a political litmus test before getting Worlds.

    I'm just saying that Worlds should be held in a place where we can expect a reasonably polite audience that is not too overtly partisan at the expense of most foreign skaters. Based on the Olympic experience, I don't feel Sochi meets this.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnice View Post
    I am just surprised because I thought that they are going to move the Iceberg Arena from Sochi.
    That is what officials originally said would happen. It was supposed to be moved to Rostov-on-Don.

    Apparently, however, that hasn't been the plan for some time now.

    Here's a news report from February 2013:

    The Sports Ministry plans to turn the Iceberg Skating Palace into a velodrome, but deputy prime minister Dmitry Kozak said the arena would keep its current name and that any legacy plans must be based on an assessment of skaters’ needs.

    “We still need to weigh up and analyze what sort of physical base exists for figure skaters in the country as a whole and in the city of Sochi, and take a final decision on this facility,” he said.
    http://en.rsport.ru/olympics/20130207/643911935.html

    I suppose they can always use it as a white elephant.

  11. #51
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    I thought they said during the broadcast that the Iceberg wuld be disassembed and had already been sold to Britian. Although I am sure the hockey arena in Sochi would serve as a fine venue as well.
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyinna View Post
    Well but then sorry but Japan and US allows capital punishment and for me it's on the same level as not treating women equally to men, allowing racims and anti gay laws.

    So which country can host Worlds?
    It's not really, though. I am not saying that's not an important issue. To me, at least, it is. But as kwanfan1818 pointed out:

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Standards could start with countries that don't segregate, discriminate, and potentially criminalize athletes and officials because of race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.
    Discriminatory laws (and/or a lack of equality legislation) affect both athletes and spectators more directly than the issue of capital punishment.

    If Worlds are held in Russia then, as an openly gay man, I can't go there and feel comfortable or even safe.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 04-22-2014 at 10:46 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Is the idea that countries should not host international athletic events when they have no regard for human rights limited to selecting the host for Olys? IIRC, there was criticism of China (and later, Russia) being awarded the Olys because of their human rights abuses. Since that criticism, Russia still has the anti-gay law -- and Olys was followed by what is essentially an invasion of Ukraine. I hope that Worlds goes to Helsinki.
    These concerns seem to have gone by the wayside when awarding sporting events, but I think this is a far better reason to avoid a particular location than partisan crowds.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't see why not. You have not given an explanation for your judgmental call.
    I have, The reluctance of International crowds and the lack of sportsmanship by the local crowd both displayed at olympics,
    And referred to by skaters, fans and veterans.

    I also mentioned a cynical speculations that they're trying to politic at worlds before Olympics cause they don't trust S. Korea.

    And that's even without touching the Human rights issues which i tried to avoid here, But i see others have brought up.

    I think it would be a good choice to avoid Russia at the moment if there are other countries in Europe interested,
    But no one's gonna ask me, just another opinion.

    Was it disgusting then when it happened in Vancouver for Virtue Moir ?
    It wasn't a big scandal
    May i ask what exactly happened? Because i think i know and i'm not sure that's really the same.

  15. #55

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    Who are the other cities bidding? Other than Helsinki?

  16. #56
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    That's a good question, And i hope whoever they are they're all in Europe

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    May i ask what exactly happened? Because i think i know and i'm not sure that's really the same.
    While Domnina/Shabalin waited for their marks, the crowd chanted Ca-na-da. Isn't that what happened with Yuna - the crowd chanted Ross-i-ya while she waited for her marks?
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnice View Post
    The ISU congress in Ireland decides it in July.


    Quote Originally Posted by Finnice View Post
    Finland
    and most of the other EU countries, plus Norway, Iceland... There is plenty of them.
    Worlds in Europe forever bitches!

    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post

    I'm just saying that Worlds should be held in a place where we can expect a reasonably polite audience that is not too overtly partisan at the expense of most foreign skaters. Based on the Olympic experience, I don't feel Sochi meets this.
    The cheering in Sochi was obnoxious, but it's obnoxious at the Olympics. I was in Torino for the men's event and believe you me that it was a good thing we were on neutral ground because the fans from each of the six countries represented in that final group were all plenty obnoxious on their own account.

    The Olympics is not a good indicator of how a figure skating crowd will be in any country.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  19. #59

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    Politics aside, I would not like to see Russia get Worlds again for awhile longer; other European countries have not had Worlds in quite some time. Finland certainly is one of these. England, the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Spain would all seem fair to be favored over Russia for at least the next couple of Worlds that will be awarded to Europe.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post

    The Olympics is not a good indicator of how a figure skating crowd will be in any country.
    Seriously. While there are disinterested spouses/partners "dragged" to championships and sometimes hoards of unruly school children during otherwise sparsely attended daytime events, the skating fans aren't outnumbered by the sponsors -- hard to say if it's better if they don't show or if they do -- and the general sports fans who care little about skating and are most interested in beer and flag-waiving.

    You can have overwhelming crowd favorites, like in Japan, or in Vancouver at any (long-track) speed-skating event, where there was so much orange, you'd think the Olympics were taking place in Amsterdam, but the crowds were fair, supportive, and knowledgeable, which makes all the difference.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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