View Poll Results: How could healthy 6 triple Kwan do do in Turin

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  • gold

    64 33.33%
  • silver

    61 31.77%
  • bronze

    34 17.71%
  • 4th or lower

    33 17.19%
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  1. #201

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    I'm too lazy to look things up but have the exact scores in my head anyway

    SP: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/SEG003.HTM
    LP: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/SEG004.HTM

  2. #202
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    If Kwan skated a clean 6 triple program Shizuka would atleast have done the 6th triple if Kwan's combined score was even high enough for it to be worth the bother. She chose after Sasha's skate to not only take out the two planned triple-triples, but take out 2 other standard triples, and just do 5 triples. She knew she only needed 5 or maybe even 4 triples to win.

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    If Kwan skated a clean 6 triple program Shizuka would atleast have done the 6th triple if Kwan's combined score was even high enough for it to be worth the bother. She chose after Sasha's skate to not only take out the two planned triple-triples, but take out 2 other standard triples, and just do 5 triples. She knew she only needed 5 or maybe even 4 triples to win.
    Despite this being a CoPish competition, choosing to leave out content is a lot easier than choosing 1) to do planned content 2) add content. It is not a simple reversible equation.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    If Kwan skated a clean 6 triple program Shizuka would atleast have done the 6th triple if Kwan's combined score was even high enough for it to be worth the bother. She chose after Sasha's skate to not only take out the two planned triple-triples, but take out 2 other standard triples, and just do 5 triples. She knew she only needed 5 or maybe even 4 triples to win.
    Not necessarily true considering that even though Shiz skated after Sasha's mess, she did not know for sure that she only needed 5 triples to win because Irina was last to skate. If Irina skated like she had at 2005 Worlds, she would have won the gold medal. Unfortunately, along with the two mistakes, Irina was a bit sloppy and looked very tired and languid during the whole performance.

    Either way, after the short, it was clear who the judges wanted on the podium. How Slutskaya got a level 3 for her step sequence in the SP is beyond me, since the whole thing was a bunch of twizzles and brackets. Some of the other ladies who got level 2s had way more content than she did.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    If Kwan skated a clean 6 triple program Shizuka would atleast have done the 6th triple if Kwan's combined score was even high enough for it to be worth the bother. She chose after Sasha's skate to not only take out the two planned triple-triples, but take out 2 other standard triples, and just do 5 triples. She knew she only needed 5 or maybe even 4 triples to win.
    I do recall Shiz had problems w/ UR'ing the 3loop during the season, for some reason.

  6. #206

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    I don't think the doubled loop was intentional by Shizuka, but not going for 3-3s probably was planned. I think she was just going for a clean skate and hoping for a medal.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ither way, after the short, it was clear who the judges wanted on the podium.
    Well it was clear with the field, and Asada and Kwan both out of the Games, who the 3 best skaters in the event were. So it isnt surprising it was an easy choice which 3 to have on the podium, just a question of which color.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    I don't think the doubled loop was intentional by Shizuka, but not going for 3-3s probably was planned. I think she was just going for a clean skate and hoping for a medal.
    Yeah. I don't think she ever gave up on the 3loop. I do think she went into the LP wanting to do it, but judging by her history w/ that particular jump in that particular season, she probably popped it into a double at the last minute. But, my earlier response had to do w/ the fact that the poster stated she would've done 6 triples, and I don't believe that would've necessarily been the case.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Well it was clear with the field, and Asada and Kwan both out of the Games, who the 3 best skaters in the event were. So it isnt surprising it was an easy choice which 3 to have on the podium, just a question of which color.
    With the season Arakawa was having up until that point, Arakawa was not a favorite for a medal, but rather had an outside shot.

  10. #210
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    With Nakano not making the team, the others who supposedly had a better season than Arakawa (other than Cohen and Slutskaya) leading to Turin were Sokolova, Ando and Kostner. They were all top five at Worlds previously. Too bad they all bombed the short so it's pretty moot.

    Arakawa didn't make GPF, but her 2 GP performances were rather solid.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    With Nakano not making the team, the others who supposedly had a better season than Arakawa (other than Cohen and Slutskaya) leading to Turin were Sokolova, Ando and Kostner. They were all top five at Worlds previously. Too bad they all bombed the short so it's pretty moot.
    Even had those skaters skated cleanly in the short Sokolova and Ando were never in contention. At best they might have gotten a Suguri like score. Kostner might have been but even that is a stretch. And if she did it would have been with the aid of home cooking as she wasnt even half the skater she was today back then.

    In that field Arakawa was supposed to medal regardless her season. Everyone with a brain knows Slutskaya, Cohen, and Arakawa were the 3 best skaters in the field that was entered that year, and if all 3 skated at all decently they were the sure medalists not because just because the judges wanted them there, but because they were much better than anyone else in the event.

  12. #212
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    ^Kostner was reigning World Bronze medalist going into Torino and was competing in her home country. My memory of this season is fading but I believe she had a 3-3. I think a clean Kostner would've been in the 63 - 64 pt. range after the SP. I don't think she would've been a major menace to the Slutskaya-Cohen-Arakawa triumvirate after the SP, but who knows what would've happened with those mistakes by Cohen and Slute after the LP if Kostner miraculously skated well (A stretch of course - she being a notorious head case from '06 - '10)

  13. #213
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    Kostner skating clean probably would have gotten higher scores than she deserved and been a huge factor, especialy with all the mistakes. Just look at the Sochi event and the scores of Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya. Just look at the overscoring of Kwan, Hughes, and Cohen in SLC. The overscoring of Manley in Calgary.

  14. #214

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    I just re-watched Kostner's 2006 Euros LP, which was one of her better performances that season, and I forgot how much she had improved. Even in 2007, her Pachelbel SP was way better than what she showed in 2006 (although her skating skills and potential for musical interpretation were both evident then).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    The overscoring of Manley in Calgary.
    This only bothers me because Manley was the best skater across the three phase at those Olympics even if Ito should have won the Freeskate.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    This only bothers me because Manley was the best skater across the three phase at those Olympics even if Ito should have won the Freeskate.
    Yeah, that original comment kind of stopped me in my tracks when I read it. This is the first time I've heard anyone say Manley was overscored in Calgary.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Yeah, that original comment kind of stopped me in my tracks when I read it. This is the first time I've heard anyone say Manley was overscored in Calgary.
    I don't want to derail the thread but I think Manley's score / placement in the SP was a little generous. Ito and Kadavy should've been in front of her. However, I don't have a problem w/ her winning the LP even w/ Ito's scintillating performance, and I don't think dropping Manley 2 places from 3rd - 5th and losing -0.8 points would've effected her getting the Olympic silver medal. So, that topic is pretty moot IMO

  18. #218
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    Manley was probably robbed of the gold since Witt was probably even more overscored than she was. However both were overmarked in the short program and probably figures. In reality Witt and Manley should have been no better than 4th and 5th in the short, not 1st and 3rd. Manley had big jumps and fast spins, but unfortunately bobbled on 2 elements (the jump combination and her camel spin) which no other contenders besides Trenary did, and had one of the easiest jump combinations of the contenders to star with. In figures Witt should have been way lower than 3rd. Manley probably should have been over Witt, but maybe not over Trenary. So Manley was still overscored, just not as much as the one who beat her and perhaps shouldnt have. Witt being overmarked was expected due to who she was. Manley not so much.

    Had the figures and short program been scored correctly though Thomas would have won both programs (or at worst 1st in figures, 2nd in the short behind Ito or Kadavy) and had a huge lead over Witt and Manley. She probably would have been relaxed and skated atleast a reasonable long programand overall won comfortably overall. Even her 4th place in the long might given her the gold if the other programs were scored correctly.

  19. #219
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    Relaxing wasn't really Thomas's problem. She's stated in interviews that her problems at Calgary dealt w/ the fact that she radically changed her schedule in the Olympic year by strictly focusing on skating. She was the type of person that actually functioned well on the ice w/ an overloaded schedule off the ice, probably because it didn't allow her any time to obsess about her performances

  20. #220
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    I wanted Debi to win the 88 Olympics so badly (well I wanted Ito to win even more but I knew that wouldnt happen). Was so mad at her for blowing it. I agree she was ripped off in figures and the short and might have deserved the gold anyway if those portions were scored rightly, but she still only had to beat Witt's mediocre long program to win gold, and that was super easy for her. What a choke job, shame on Debi! I agree with bardtoob that Manley deserved the gold overall. Witt was gifted by her name for a less than stellar event, overplaced in all 3 phases of the competition this time.

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