View Poll Results: How could healthy 6 triple Kwan do do in Turin

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  • gold

    64 33.33%
  • silver

    61 31.77%
  • bronze

    34 17.71%
  • 4th or lower

    33 17.19%
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  1. #81
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    You dont agree with me that Shizuka should feel ashamed winning those Olympics without young Mao? Young Mao had been kicking her ass all year. They werent even in the same league. Mao is one of the best skaters ever and fully deserves and OGM. She didnt get it in 2010 due to a zoning Kim, and in 2014 due to the farcial million dollar fixed win of Adelina Fraudnitkova, but in 2006 it should have been hers and wasnt due to some stupid age rule which has already been changed.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripingroar37 View Post
    You dont agree with me that Shizuka should feel ashamed winning those Olympics without young Mao? Young Mao had been kicking her ass all year. They werent even in the same league. Mao is one of the best skaters ever and fully deserves and OGM. She didnt get it in 2010 due to a zoning Kim, and in 2014 due to the farcial million dollar fixed win of Adelina Fraudnitkova, but in 2006 it should have been hers and wasnt due to some stupid age rule which has already been changed.
    Oh sweety, no. I wasn't responding to your post...I was referring to the other poster I was having a conversation with.

    I have no interest in your rant about Shizuka giving Mao her medal.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripingroar37 View Post
    You dont agree with me that Shizuka should feel ashamed winning those Olympics without young Mao? Young Mao had been kicking her ass all year. They werent even in the same league. Mao is one of the best skaters ever and fully deserves and OGM. She didnt get it in 2010 due to a zoning Kim, and in 2014 due to the farcial million dollar fixed win of Adelina Fraudnitkova, but in 2006 it should have been hers and wasnt due to some stupid age rule which has already been changed.
    WTF?!?! Since when should any skater feel "ashamed" for beating the competitors who were at the event? Because there were others who had performed better during the season but were ineligible to compete there? I don't know whether to or over that idea. Talk about "farcical." Mao was clearly at a peak in 2006, but there wasn't any guarantee of how she would perform in Turin even if she had been there.
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  4. #84
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    The Olympic gold is the prize for the BEST skater in the world at the time. Was that Irina Slutskaya? No (although it was before queen Mao ended her almost 2 year run at dominance with a thud at the grand prix final) Was that Splatta Cohen? No. Was that so called Olympic Champion Shizuka? No. Or for a real laugh was that (by then) Michelle Kwan. No that person was Mao Asada. So the Olympic gold was for her. The person who the Olympic gold was for was not even allowed to compete to take her prize. How foolish. Made the ISU look like idiots though.

  5. #85
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    By the way you can check the record. It is a fact. Shizuka never beat Mao in head to head competition ever. Even to young Mao she was her bitch.

  6. #86

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    Rules are rules . . . Mao was never going to be in Torino, just like Radionova was never going to be in Sochi. It is what it is. I was a huge Mao fan from the beginning too, and I loved her in 2005-2006. But she wasn't old enough to compete, according to the rules, and that's that. What use is it to argue over it now?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    Rules are rules . . . Mao was never going to be in Torino, just like Radionova was never going to be in Sochi. It is what it is. I was a huge Mao fan from the beginning too, and I loved her in 2005-2006. But she wasn't old enough to compete, according to the rules, and that's that. What use is it to argue over it now?
    Radianova was never a factor in Sochi though. So nobody cares about her. She wouldnt have made the team anyway, that was always Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya. So it wouldnt matter if she were eligible.

    Mao was unquestionably the best skater in the world in 2006. Nobody denies it. And she was not at the Games to accept her prize. It looks even worse now that she still doesnt have an OGM. One of the best skaters ever, and not an OGM. Such a shame.

  8. #88

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    I'm shedding a single tear for Mao and Kim.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripingroar37 View Post
    The Olympic gold is the prize for the BEST skater in the world at the time.
    The Olympic gold goes to the person who wins it on that night...it rarely goes to the person who is actually the best skater in the world.

    I do think Mao could have competed in Torino and would have had an excellent shot at winning, especially given how sub par the top 3 were in that event. However, rules are rules. She was too young so she could not go.

    An OGM is not the be all-end all of a career. Even if Mao never wins that medal it will not diminish what she's accomplished. She'll be part of a very decorated list of skaters who are legends w/o it, which is more impressive if you really think about it.

    "Shaming" Shizuka for winning a competition Mao wasn't even a part of isn't fair or even logical.

  10. #90
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    The Olympic gold does usually go to the best in the world:

    1976- Hamill
    1980- Poetzsch
    1984- Witt
    1988- Witt
    1992- Yamaguchi
    1994- Baiul
    1998- Lipinski
    2010- Kim

    So discounting Sochi which wasnt even a competition but an exhibition, 8 out of 10 times the Olympic gold went to the best skater in the world at the time. The only one some might question is Tara in 98, but I would say she was the best since most of the big events in 97 and 98 she was the champion of. 97 worlds, both grand prix finals, 98 Olympics, to me that is the best. Sometimes the judges even arguably held up the best who maybe wasnt the best that night- Witt 88, Baiul 94, since they know the best skater should win the Olympics, which is further proof the Olympic gold is destined for the best.

    1 of the only 2 times the Olympic gold didnt go to the best of those 10 was when the best skater wasnt allowed to show up to take her prize. If she couldnt skate, she should have atleast been allowed to show up and be awarded her gold medal.

  11. #91

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    You're funny.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    You're funny.
    He/she could be, but not that much in fact

  13. #93

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    Poetzsch was no where near the best skater across the three phases of the competition, or even two phases. Heck, some even claim her figures was not very good in Lake Placid.

    Witt was reliable and nice to watch, but "better" than Zayak in 1984 or Ito (two phases) and Manley (three phases) in 1988 is questionable since Witt never was very good at compulsory figures.

    Kerrigan won the SP. Biaul and Kerrigan tied in the freeskate, but Biaul won the competition by a tiebreaker. Technically Kerrigan got 1st and 1st in both phases while Biaul got 2nd and 1st but Biaul won.

    My point is claiming that the best in the World usually wins at the Olympics is weak since often not even the best in the competition necessarily wins.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 04-18-2014 at 07:30 PM.

  14. #94
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    Zayak was never even close to the best skater in the world at the time of any Olympics. If she was ever close to being that it was in 1981-1982 but there were no Olympics that year.

    Poetzsch was the best skater of her era due to being by far the best in figures in an era everyone was mediocre and blah in free skating. All of Fratianne, Poetzsch, and Lurz doing a long program would make for a good way to put someone to sleep more easily for a root canal or other major dental operation. So might as well give the titles to the best in figures, as long as she stays upright in free skating.

    Yeah Kerrigan probably was better than Baiul in the competition at the 94 Games, but Baiul was the best skater in the world at the time which overruled Kerigan being better in that competition to the judges. Which is my whole point of how the best skater in the world at the time usually wins the Olympics.

    Just like Manley was better than Witt at the competition itself at the 88 Games, but since Witt was the best in the world at the time the judges gave her the gold anyway. Since the best skater in the world usually wins the Olympics. So it didnt even matter to the judges Manley was the best over the course of that competition.

    2002 was a rare occasion the judges went with who skated the best in that competition despite that she clearly wasnt the best skater in the world. In 2010 they couldnt award the gold medal to the best skater in the world since she wasnt allowed to be there. Given Shizuka's not great winning performances, the occasional overruling of the best skater for best performance on the day, wouldnt have been realistic either. Even on an off day for Mao as Mao would have had the best performance on the day even not skating her best, in addition to being the best skater in the world at the time.
    Last edited by ripingroar37; 04-18-2014 at 07:32 PM.

  15. #95

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    The SP came into existence to balance the competition in 1973, and Poetzsch did not even do a triple in combination with the 2Lp in the SP. It is also convenient you left out Biellman. YouTube Poetzsch and Biellman at Lake Placid.

    YouTube Zayak and Witt in Sarajevo, and look at the content.

    How can anybody call a competition a "competition" if the performances, in this case over 2 or 3 days, mean nothing? If one's skating is so great, then shouldn't being able to show it be a realistic expectation?
    Last edited by bardtoob; 04-18-2014 at 08:07 PM.

  16. #96
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    I assume you are a big fan of Elaine Zayak, but you are living in an alterior universe if you think she was by any measure considered best skater in the world at the time of the 84 Olympics. She had done NOTHING since her world title in 82, and had not even won her own Nationals the last 3 years. That year she had been 3rd at Nationals. She was the 3rd best skater in her own country and you are using her as an example of best skater in the world not winning the olympic gold, LOL! As for Sarajevo she was 6th in the short, 4th in the long, and 5th in the combined free skating, so it seems even outside her ghastly figures nobody considered her even close to the best other than possibly you. To her credit she did skate great, the best she had in years, and it was a great climax to her career, but her run as best in the world (if she ever had one) was long in the past by then.

    As for content what did Zayak did which Witt didnt other than one small triple loop she barely landed. Well Witt did a double lutz-triple toe combo which is even harder, and could have easily pulled out her triple flip if she thought she needed it.

    Of course I left out Biellmann. Everyone knows Biellmann sucked at figures too badly to ever be the best in the world at the time, just as Zayak did. It seems you are creating an imaginary planet where figures dont even exist which is a different topic altogether. Figures were part of skating then so those hopeless at them- Biellmann, Ito, Zayak, were not considered best in the world, even if Biellmann and Ito arguably were in free skating.

  17. #97

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    The real world is where stuff actually happens. It is a fantasy to not believe one's own eyes and think about what is not there as if it is. For example, Zayak's 3Lp was there in 1984, a reality, while Witt's 3F was not there in 1984, although a very nice fantasy.

    I like Colledge, Fratianne, Zayak, Biellman, Manley, Ito, Harding, Chen, Kwan, Slutskaya, Asada, Kim ... I like a lot of skaters ... a lot more than listed.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 04-18-2014 at 08:26 PM.

  18. #98
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    So Zayak who couldnt do half decent figures anymore, had no real results for over 2 years, and was even 5th in combined free skating skating her best in Sarajevo was best skater in the world at the time just because you say so? OK then, sure. 3rd best in the U.S, but best in the world at the time just because.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    WTF?!?! Since when should any skater feel "ashamed" for beating the competitors who were at the event? Because there were others who had performed better during the season but were ineligible to compete there? I don't know whether to or over that idea. Talk about "farcical." Mao was clearly at a peak in 2006, but there wasn't any guarantee of how she would perform in Turin even if she had been there.
    True, and Mao lost to Yu-Na Kim by about 25 points at Junior Worlds that year.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    True, and Mao lost to Yu-Na Kim by about 25 points at Junior Worlds that year.
    She bombed there. On a good day she easily beat Yu Na at that point, this wasnt the Yu Na of 2007-2014, and anyway Yu Na wasnt at the Olympics so she wouldnt have had to worry about her.

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