View Poll Results: How would clean Shen & Zhao do in Sochi

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  • gold

    7 9.21%
  • silver

    37 48.68%
  • bronze

    21 27.63%
  • no medal

    11 14.47%
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  1. #1
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    How would clean Shen & Zhao have done at 2014 Olympics

    Had the great Shen & Zhao returned and skated cleanly in Sochi how would they have done. Could they have defended their title even.

  2. #2
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    Unless Volosozhar and Trankov skated the entire time on their butts, there was no way they could lose gold, especially with the way the judging for Sochi was.

  3. #3

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    I voted silver but only because V/T were foreordained. I prefer S/Z by a million miles, and who's to say that if they had competed against V/T for a year or two they wouldn't have figured out how to beat them? But that is probably truer of 2003 or 2007 S/Z than 2010 S/Z, let alone hypothetical and ancient 2014 S/Z.

  4. #4
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    If they skated clean they would be 4th behind S&S. In higher reality to how they would probably skate given their ages and time away from amateur skating more likely a 8th place finish.

  5. #5
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    I actually think they would have won, since V&T weren't totally clean, but maybe I'm being too optimistic about the judging. They definitely would have beaten S&S for the bronze, if clean.

  6. #6

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    S/Z have better choreography, performance quality, and innate qualities that make pairs teams special. They even have big throws. However, I don't know how they would have fit in 2014. If we're taking their 2010 selves into 2014, I can see them winning silver. V/T are still cooking, but their elements are perfect for COP scrutiny. S/Z's not so much since they developed in a program that was still a developing pairs program in the 1990s. They had to touch-and-go and did not have the benefit of coming from a federation that has a rich history of pairs skating. However, they had already beaten S/S before (and a clean S/S) and S/S skated pretty badly in the Sochi LP.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  7. #7
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    I voted GOLD! They are the best pair ever so it is impossible to deny them if they skate cleanly.

  8. #8
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    Are the 9 people who voted 4th on glue. The Germans fell twice and you think they would beat a CLEAN Shen & Zhao. The Germans have never beaten a clean Shen & Zhao in any program ever, even when they were clean themselves. They arent in the same league.

  9. #9
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    In 2010 S&Z beat a clean S&S in the short program by only half a point. In 2014 V&T beat a clean S&S in the short program by four and a half points. So V&T are already out.

    Probably they would have a good shot at silver, but who knows. Stolbova & Klimov received blatant overscoring like all the Russian figure skaters. The Germans would probably be favored politically over Shen & Zhao unlike 2010 when S&Z were.

  10. #10
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    Clean? They would have been on the podium for sure, likely an easy 2nd. Those who voted 4th or lower are certainly on glue

    They weren't clean in 2010 and won the OGM. They were also scored nicely and keep in mind that this was before all the PCS became inflated the past 2 years.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    Clean? They would have been on the podium for sure, likely an easy 2nd. Those who voted 4th or lower are certainly on glue

    They weren't clean in 2010 and won the OGM. They were also scored nicely and keep in mind that this was before all the PCS became inflated the past 2 years.
    Nothing was like 2010. First off they would be almost 40. That is ancient in skating, even for pairs. They wouldnt be the sentimental favorites like 2010. In 2010 they were legends and all time greats without the elusive OGM yet. That is why their scores in their comeback were consistently on the generous side compared to their competitors. This time had they come back they already had their OGM, and V&T on home ice and S&S in their last chance for the OGM would be the heavy emotional favorites above them had they returned. The judges if anything may have been baffled why they were coming back at all and less than kind.

    There also wasnt much competition in 2010. S&S were 2 time world champions but not as strong a team as 2011-2014 still, and they were having their worst season ever in 2010, even losing to Pang & Tong who they dominated the remainder of their careers. This time there would be huge opposition to face with a dominant V&T, and a now many time world champions S&S.

  12. #12

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    I don't think S/S made much of a case of being a stronger team going into 2014 than they were going into 2010. Yeah they have that inconsistent throw 3axel which seems like a desperate attempt to get one over V/T, but everything else seemed more or less the same (maybe some regression going on).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't think S/S made much of a case of being a stronger team going into 2014 than they were going into 2010. Yeah they have that inconsistent throw 3axel which seems like a desperate attempt to get one over V/T, but everything else seemed more or less the same (maybe some regression going on).
    They were attempting more difficulty, had branched out their style more, grown a bit in maturity and polish, and were a little more consistent (still not super consistent but they won most of their titles pre 2010 with lots of huge errors like the 2008 worlds, 2007 grand prix final, some of their European titles). I do think they were definitely a better team in 2011-2014 than 2008-2009, let alone 2010 which was their worst year of skating ever in their primes. I dont think the S&S of pre 2011 could have ever beaten V&T at the 2011 grand prix final for instance, maybe not even the 2011 and 2012 worlds. The 2010 one wouldnt even been close. S&S actually did competitions with a clean short and long sometimes- 2011 worlds, 2013 grand prix final, which they never did before 2010.

    Remember in 2010 S&S lost to Pang & Tong all 4 times they met. They were in a huge slump that year and not skating well at all, which make it ridiculously easy for S&Z to just coast to their much deserved and long awaited gold in 2010.

  14. #14

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    I think I need to watch S/S closely to see the evolution of their skating. I just haven't had much motivation to care much about pairs skating since…well 2004.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think I need to watch S/S closely to see the evolution of their skating. I just haven't had much motivation to care much about pairs skating since…well 2004.
    I began to lose interest around 2005 when Shen & Zhao went down with injuries and Tatiana Totmianina and Marim Marinin began to dominate.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fracturedleg View Post
    Nothing was like 2010. First off they would be almost 40. That is ancient in skating, even for pairs. They wouldnt be the sentimental favorites like 2010. In 2010 they were legends and all time greats without the elusive OGM yet. That is why their scores in their comeback were consistently on the generous side compared to their competitors. This time had they come back they already had their OGM, and V&T on home ice and S&S in their last chance for the OGM would be the heavy emotional favorites above them had they returned. The judges if anything may have been baffled why they were coming back at all and less than kind.

    There also wasnt much competition in 2010. S&S were 2 time world champions but not as strong a team as 2011-2014 still, and they were having their worst season ever in 2010, even losing to Pang & Tong who they dominated the remainder of their careers. This time there would be huge opposition to face with a dominant V&T, and a now many time world champions S&S.
    Hey I never said it would be easy for them at 40 but for all intensive purposes this poll says they skate clean in 2014. And S/Z have never been known to show up to an event anything less than fit and ready. Clean S/Z is a force, no one can deny that.

    S/S also sucked most of this season, and sucked at the Olympics in the FS. It would be a farce if a clean (we're pretending here) S/Z finished behind what the Germans put out. The nutcracker program is horrible for S/S. I think that they are immensely talented, but the direction they took is not at all something that fits with their strengths. Aliona skating as the nutcracker is an awful fit. Aliona skating as the pink panther on the other hand? That's a combination that works!

    But anyway, I don't see the growth in S/S since 2010, or maybe I'm just missing something.

    And as for S/Z being scored generously in 2010? I don't see it at all, except maybe in the FS where they almost lost the gold. They had amazing programs, better-than-ever quality on all elements, consistency, and they had all the bells and whistles for COP. Not to mention the legendary S/Z emotional impact all packaged into one. They were easily the worlds best in 2010, and I felt they were scored according to what they put out, I didn't feel they were gifted that season (except maybe the olympic FS)
    Last edited by cbd1235; 04-17-2014 at 06:29 AM.

  17. #17

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    If S/Z were competing, I doubt S/S would have attempted The Nutcracker.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  18. #18
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    Well they wouldnt come back unless they were attempting difficulty they did in the past and able to skate it cleanly. Which is what makes this thread kind of silly anyway, as that was probably never realistic for a 40 year old male pairs skater and his 36 year old partner. What they were able to pull off in 2010 was already amazing, although at that time I wasnt surprised at all. The only way they would have come back is if the chinese fed. had begged a return as they didnt feel they had a gold contender at all otherwise, which would be the first time since 98 they didnt. Old Pang & Tong were never gold hopefuls in Sochi, they would have been happy with just a bronze, and probably werent ever getting even that.

    V&T were going to be given the gold as long as they didnt do more than fall twice anyway. S&S lost to them by more than 20 points, so you can probably give V&T 2 falls, take away S&S's two, and they still win. Actually V&T missed both throws even with the score they got, so maybe more than that. I was about to say even G&G in their primes reicarnated wouldnt have a hope, but I briefly forgot they are russian too, so that changes things drastically, but as for a non Russian forget it. If the Russians were able to somehow make Sotnikova beat a clean Yu Na Kim by 6 points, how could anyone beat V&T at this corrupted event, when they were probably the actual best team to begin with.

  19. #19
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    I also wonder why S&S even went for the throw triple axel. I could understand it as a Hail Mary try of beating V&T had they gone clean to that point, but with their fall they werent going to be allowed to beat even a shaky V&T even with a quintruple throw to end landed well. An Olympic silver still should have meant something to them, given they only got bronze in Vancouver. Maybe they thought the judges wouldnt dare drop them behind S&K even with a 2nd fall. If they had a crystal ball and could see the ladies event to come, they probably would have been wiser and just done the salchow at that point.

  20. #20
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    It was definitely really silly to do the axel, but I guess that's what they wanted to do. I wouldn't have advocated for that if I were the coach.....

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