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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    I still would like a public statement about where they stand on the short program issue and what they intend to do about it.
    I posted Pat St. Peter's statement to USFS members in the other Cinquanta thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4247873
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Which is really just stupid. If the ISU would admit they represent the countries they come from it would be a lot more transparent. Trying to pretend that a judge nominated by the Antartica-federation doesn't come in with pro-Antartic view points (even if they aren't going to downright cheat to favor their skaters) is just absurd.
    \
    When a judge takes the exam and is appointed as a Championship Judge by the ISU, the Federation from which that judge came from no longer has control of that judge. The Federation cannot remove or discipline a Championship judge for any reason other than the judge becomes Ineligible.
    Morry Stillwell

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    \
    When a judge takes the exam and is appointed as a Championship Judge by the ISU, the Federation from which that judge came from no longer has control of that judge. The Federation cannot remove or discipline a Championship judge for any reason other than the judge becomes Ineligible.
    I'm sure you mean that when that judge is nominated by their federation and chosen by the ISU to judge at a championship event (where they are introduced as representing the ISU), what they do at that event is subject to review/discipline from the ISU, not by their federation. That doesn't mean that they can't be "influenced" by their federation. Such judges are not limited to judging at ISU events and are still permitted to judge at events within their own country (and they usually do). Surely their conduct at non-championship events is out of the ISU control?
    Can't skate but love to watch

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visaliakid View Post
    "Do they see the issues with Mr. Cinquanta? Are they bold enough to step out and sign the petition, and then do more to make create change? Clearly (20) years of Mr. Cinquanta's leadership has taken us far away from success and close to oblivion. I would think as a PSA or USFSA Board Member it is crucial to have a clear view of figure skating and the challenges facing our sport and to be able to articulate action rather than responding, "It can't be done that way, that is not how the ISU works, it is political". We are so far past the time for that "political response" that it is insulting to hear it. Be Bold Board Members, and then back it up with action."
    In a sense the entire skating community is responsible for letting it get to this extent. Why has the same man been allowed to stay in charge of the ISU year after year? One man in charge of the ISU for 20 years? The skating federations should have all worked to remove him years ago.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    In a sense the entire skating community is responsible for letting it get to this extent. Why has the same man been allowed to stay in charge of the ISU year after year? One man in charge of the ISU for 20 years? The skating federations should have all worked to remove him years ago.
    Have others stood against him? I don't know the history of this one. You can only have a change if there is an suitable alternative.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Have others stood against him? I don't know the history of this one. You can only have a change if there is an suitable alternative.
    How can there not be an alternative to Cinquanta? The ISU has had 20 years to find someone else and there are plenty of talented skating officials who have run skating federations in Canada, USA, Europe, etc. We're not talking about the Presidency of the United States here. Is a man who is pushing 80 years old really their only option? Is there no other younger man (or woman!) capable of doing the job?

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    Is a man who is pushing 80 years old really their only option?
    Politically, yes. Enough people with voting privileges continue to vote for him because they "like" what he does, despite how twisted that sounds.

  8. #108

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    I don't think the problem is that there aren't any people who would be capable of doing the job more competently than $peedy. I would guess that there have been people interested in taking on the job of president, but who decided not to run because it would be nearly impossible to counteract the amount of support $peedy would have from the speed skaters and from his ISU allies. Also, presenting yourself as an alternative to $peedy would involve criticizing his actions and his policies - so when you lost, as you inevitably would, you would likely be a very unpopular person in the ISU.

    The World Skating Federation is a very instructive example of the vindictiveness that happens in the ISU when $peedy is criticized. The iSU lost a number of very experienced high-ranking officials in that mess, and they didn't have to. They could have approached the situation with an attitude of, "okay, what you did was maybe not the best choice of action, but obviously you are dissatisfied with how things are going. Let's work together and use your knowledge and your ideas to improve the ISU for everyone." Instead, their reaction was to clamp down on the "perpetrators", mobilize $peedy's allies to speak out against them - and to get the members of their federations to speak out against them - and ban them for life.

    In an organizational culture like that, it's maybe no surprise that no one has dared to step up to run for president against $peedy.
    Last edited by overedge; 04-27-2014 at 08:19 PM.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    I don't think the problem is that there aren't any people who would be capable of doing the job more competently than $peedy. I would guess that there have been people interested in taking on the job of president, but who decided not to run because it would be nearly impossible to counteract the amount of support $peedy would have from the speed skaters and from his ISU allies. Also, presenting yourself as an alternative to $peedy would involve criticizing his actions and his policies - so when you lost, as you inevitably would, you would likely be a very unpopular person in the ISU.

    The World Skating Federation is a very instructive example of the vindictiveness that happens in the ISU when $peedy is criticized. The iSU lost a number of very experienced high-ranking officials in that mess, and they didn't have to. They could have approached the situation with an attitude of, "okay, what you did was maybe not the best choice of action, but obviously you are dissatisfied with how things are going. Let's work together and use your knowledge and your ideas to improve the ISU for everyone." Instead, their reaction was to clamp down on the "perpetrators", mobilize $peedy's allies to speak out against them - and to get the members of their federations to speak out against them - and ban them for life. The ISU

    In an organizational culture like that, it's maybe no surprise that no one has dared to step up to run for president against $peedy.
    *Sigh.* So true.

  10. #110

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    Here is an example of how extreme the ISU vindictiveness against the WSF was - the letter that Skate Canada sent to its members threatening to suspend anyone who even expressed support for the WSF.

    http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/a...shes-wsf.shtml

    This is part of the motion that the Skate Canada executive passed to condemn the WSF:

    THAT any member of Skate Canada who, on or after May 1, 2003, is a member of the World Skating Federation or supports or endorses its activity, thereby seriously breaching the Constitution and Regulations of the ISU, shall be deemed to be a person not in good standing with Skate Canada, and in compliance with its obligations to the ISU, Skate Canada will not permit such persons (skaters, coaches, officials, volunteers) to participate in any competitions, programs or activities of Skate Canada.
    As a Skate Canada member, I was horrified at this heavy-handedness. So I wrote to the Skate Canada executive saying that I supported the WSF's attempts to improve the sport of skating, and saying I was appalled that Skate Canada would pass a motion restricting its members' freedom of expression and freedom of association, both of which are fundamental rights in the Canadian Charter of Rights. And if they wanted to suspend me, they could go right ahead. I'm still waiting for my letter of suspension
    Last edited by overedge; 04-27-2014 at 09:59 PM.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  11. #111
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    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I love it! Great to see her spreading the word about something constructive and important she's working to help achieve.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    I love it! Great to see her spreading the word about something constructive and important she's working to help achieve.
    Yeah great to see her treating her own petition as news and trying to promote that. Again a demonstration of her lack of journalist ethics and totally misleading.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #114

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    There is a link in red at the bottom of the story to "report this content". I urge everyone else who is disgusted with Ms. Friedlander's hypocrisy and lack of ethics - for the second year in a row - to click the link and submit a report.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    There is a link in red at the bottom of the story to "report this content". I urge everyone else who is disgusted with Ms. Friedlander's hypocrisy and lack of ethics - for the second year in a row - to click the link and submit a report.
    Done!

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    I love it! Great to see her spreading the word about something constructive and important she's working to help achieve.
    It would be "great" if she acknowledged in the story that she was a co-sponsor of the petition she is writing about. But she left that out, even after being criticized for doing exactly the same thing with the Denis Ten petition she sponsored last year. Between that and the mysterious changes to the text of the petition *after* people had signed it, it's clear that she has little or no understanding of ethical behaviour. All that she may be "achieving" is giving the ISU more and more reasons to ignore the petition.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  17. #117

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    Before today I had never read any of her articles (thanks for the link, btw, allezfred) and I was appalled that, indeed, she left out the fact that she was a co-sponsor of this petition. It's great that figure skating is a sport she feels passionately about and wants to bring attention to it, but how about some ethical standards? There should have been a disclaimer of some sort. And the fact that some of the text of the petition after people signed? Shady.

    (Brief thread drift)

    Then I went to look at some prior articles she'd written, and was informed that essentially "no one understands IJS in the skating fan community." (I'm paraphrasing) That's some really careless writing and it is only to the detriment of the sport if she's promoting the idea that skating fans have no idea what is going on in the judging. If skating fans don't get it, why would the general public ever want to try to watch?

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    It would be "great" if she acknowledged in the story that she was a co-sponsor of the petition she is writing about. But she left that out, even after being criticized for doing exactly the same thing with the Denis Ten petition she sponsored last year. Between that and the mysterious changes to the text of the petition *after* people had signed it, it's clear that she has little or no understanding of ethical behaviour. All that she may be "achieving" is giving the ISU more and more reasons to ignore the petition.
    I reported it too. ITA that what she does does more harm to the sport than help it.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    There is a link in red at the bottom of the story to "report this content". I urge everyone else who is disgusted with Ms. Friedlander's hypocrisy and lack of ethics - for the second year in a row - to click the link and submit a report.
    Will do this later. Complete fail in journalism ethics to not mention that she herself is one of the petition sponsors.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by lmarie086 View Post
    Before today I had never read any of her articles (thanks for the link, btw, allezfred) and I was appalled that, indeed, she left out the fact that she was a co-sponsor of this petition. It's great that figure skating is a sport she feels passionately about and wants to bring attention to it, but how about some ethical standards? There should have been a disclaimer of some sort. And the fact that some of the text of the petition after people signed? Shady.

    (Brief thread drift)

    Then I went to look at some prior articles she'd written, and was informed that essentially "no one understands IJS in the skating fan community." (I'm paraphrasing) That's some really careless writing and it is only to the detriment of the sport if she's promoting the idea that skating fans have no idea what is going on in the judging. If skating fans don't get it, why would the general public ever want to try to watch?
    I don't think she is a fan of the sport. I think she is someone who sees a controversy and jumps on a bandwagon, and then makes herself out to be hero and acts as if she is going to save it. If she was a fan she would have a greater understanding of the sport and be able to rationally explain things. But she can't.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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