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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Visaliakid View Post
    Information Update: Cinquanta’s Radical Proposals: Why No Public Statement From U.S. Figure Skating?

    Thanks to information provided to Mr. Ron Pfenning we have indirectly learned of preparations in the works for what will likely take place at the June ISU Conference.

    What is important is the outline of possible proposed topics to be discussed in a pre-planning meeting several weeks ahead of the actual Congress.

    Thanks for sharing this information and for all your hard work on this issue! It's reassuring to know the USFSA leadership is at least actually preparing for the June ISU Congress beforehand and attempting to coordinate with other federations in advance. I still would like a public statement about where they stand on the short program issue and what they intend to do about it. But at least this tells us they're doing something.

    TBH, things had reached the point that I feared the U.S. and other federation representatives might walk into the Congress in June with their brains on hold and rubber stamps in hand, ready to sign anything Cinquanta presented.

  2. #82

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    But what is the USFSA organizing this forum *for*? Is it to prepare responses in opposition to $peedy's proposals, or is it to plan how to quell any dissent at the Congress?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    I personally feel that the end result is doing something constructive to help the cause of ousting Cinquanta, then I am DEFINITELY getting on that train.
    It's doing something, yes, but it's not constructive. I want to get rid of $peedy too, but the petition is badly written, its reasoning is unclear, and it blames him for things he has no control over. There are many, many specific things $peedy has done that more than justify calling for his resignation, but they are not clearly stated in this petition. And unfortunately those problems will give the ISU all the reasons it needs to ignore the petition when it's submitted.

    I just don't think trashing the person who's honestly just clearly trying to do something constructive has any rhyme or reason to it. If the petitions (yes, plural) shake the tree until an ISU president falls out and the status quo of skating changes, then quite frankly, why sweat the small stuff?
    It's not "small stuff" to be unethical and dishonest, and she has now demonstrated that with her work around two different petitions. If $peedy gets turfed and the sport of skating changes, IMHO it will be in spite of anything she's done, not because of anything she's done.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    It looks as though the bit about Sotnikova and the ladies "controversy" has been removed from the petition.

    I want Cinquanta replaced, but I'm still not signing it. Almost all of the comments say "justice for Yuna Kim," which has nothing to do with Cinquanta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    It seems like removing the objectionable part would make me more likely to sign it- but now I am less likely to sign it.
    If it can be edited after our signatures are affixed, who knows what the author may ADD later.


    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Not sure how it is dishonest.
    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    It's dishonest because people signed to support what was expressed in the text of the petition. If the text of the petition is changed, the people who have already signed might not agree with the changes, and not want to support the new version of the petition. But their names are still on it.

    It's even more dishonest to change the text of the petition without notifying the signers whose names are already on it, which appears to be what happened here.

    If the people who started the petition got negative feedback about the petition's text, the honest and ethical way to deal with it is to cancel the original petition, put up a new petition with the revised text, and send out a notification asking people to sign the new version.
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Come on! Seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Really? Do you need to respond that way? I read the petition today. Has it changed? If it has, I am unaware of it. If it does change, I would hope that they would remove the signatures and start afresh. But, I am not aware of any decision to change anything. if i have missed something, please show me. And please be respectful. I am being genuine with you. FTR, I have not read this entire thread.
    I responded that way because the previous posts before you posted discuss that if someone posts a petition and AFTER people signs it, it is dishonest. And then your post said that you are not sure how it is dishonest. I would obviously assume that if you respond to posts on the forum, that you would read the previous posts, and therefore I could not see why changing petition after people signed it is not dishonest for you.

  5. #85
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    Perhaps many of you will be more willing to sign Peter Murray's petition

    Article: http://visaliakid.wordpress.com/2014...-isu-congress/

    Petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/isu...4-isu-congress
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Perhaps many of you will be more willing to sign Peter Murray's petition

    Article: http://visaliakid.wordpress.com/2014...-isu-congress/

    Petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/isu...4-isu-congress
    This is better, certainly.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    Good! I think that's fantastic. I applaud Monica for taking a stand and DOING something constructive about what she passionately believes in. Thousands of signatures, including Mr. Dick Button himself. Good on her! I'm glad to see this issue staying in the forefront where it belongs.
    Is that really Dick or someone pretending to be him?...

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Perhaps many of you will be more willing to sign Peter Murray's petition

    Article: http://visaliakid.wordpress.com/2014...-isu-congress/

    Petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/isu...4-isu-congress
    I feel like that petition is lacking something though. It just isn't forceful enough. Speedy has made other questionable decisions and said questionable things about this sport and those should also be included. This one isn't comprehensive enough.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Is that really Dick or someone pretending to be him?...
    Button's verified Twitter account (@PushDicksButton) posted this message the other day:
    Sign the petition requesting the resignation of Ottavio Cinquanta from the presidency of the ISU http://chn.ge/1qUkeYA
    10:41am - 18 Apr 14
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #90

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    As if those rediculous proposals aren't reasoned enough, stupid enough and dangerous enough for the future of the sport. I wasn't going to laden the petition with all his past idiodic deeds to try and satisfy every possible demand from possible signatories. This is not about the need to satisfy every potential signer, it is about those who do sign sending a message to their respective NGB's that skating fans are FED UP WITH OTTAVIO CINQUANTA. I started the petition with the goal to spread the unhappiness about Cinquanta to Skating Officialdom. I know full well Speedy doesn't give a shit about us. So sign if you want or don't sign for whatever damn reason/excuse/agenda you have. I could care less.

    With that out of the way, I will back up Sylvia's confirmation that Dick Button not only supports both petitions, he has signed Bill Feuvers sponsored petition calling for Speedy's resignation. So those here who doubt that can rest be assured his signature is indeed on that document.

    I am trying to stir up the skating community base in the U.S. from the Club level up to take this fight to the USFS Governing Council in a couple weeks and get the delegates to bring up the topic of the petitions and make the elected officials and Board of Directors to acknowledge our disgust with Skating's Leadership and even get them to recognize the need to deal with Cinquanta and these foolish proposals.

    Bill Fauver has posted with challenges to former and current Olympic and World Team figure skaters to get behind not just the petitions but a general effort to spread the word on the need for NGB's to deal with Speedy. Today he challenged the PSA and USFSA Board Members as well. Here is what he wrote:

    "Do they see the issues with Mr. Cinquanta? Are they bold enough to step out and sign the petition, and then do more to make create change? Clearly (20) years of Mr. Cinquanta's leadership has taken us far away from success and close to oblivion. I would think as a PSA or USFSA Board Member it is crucial to have a clear view of figure skating and the challenges facing our sport and to be able to articulate action rather than responding, "It can't be done that way, that is not how the ISU works, it is political". We are so far past the time for that "political response" that it is insulting to hear it. Be Bold Board Members, and then back it up with action."

    Finally, anyone with a brain knows that the latest disastrous proposals from the Speed Skater are born from the critically troubled financial state that faces the ISU. The past policies that members refused to block have contributed to the critical state of skating's financial condition and public affairs nightmare that has reduced the sport's popularity to near death. Though many helped bring the sport to it's knees, it has been Cinquanta's incompetence as a business leader, his corruptible and unaccountable lack of ethics in managing skating's international governing body and his use of threats, blackballing and intimidation that is inexcusable. These alone are reason enough for NGB delegates to the June ISU Congress to seek his resignation. I have no illusions this will happen, but at least I am not just sitting around on my ass complaining. I am trying to do my small part to make something, anything positive happen for the future of the sport I love so much. - Peter Murray
    Last edited by Visaliakid; 04-21-2014 at 06:52 AM.
    There is nothing more captivating in this world than a woman's form gracing the ice in skating boots. It's simply sensational!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visaliakid View Post
    Entire post by Peter Murray
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  12. #92
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    Well said Peter!

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    Well said Peter!
    I second that strongly. Thank you Peter, both for starting this petition and your spirited statement in support of it!

    The ISU and the sport have reached a critical crossroads. Serious changes need to be made. As an individual, you can try and push for change, even in a very small way. Or you can sit around and complain and do nothing. Your choice.

  14. #94

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    And thank you, Peter, for providing the list of email addresses for the presidents of the federations. That is the sort of research and useful information that was sorely lacking in the other petition.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I think most of the judges need to go, as well.
    Most? Wow, what an insult to the vast majority of judges who give up their free time (for no pay) for the sport and do their best to judge impartially.

    And what do you propose happens while all these new judges are being trained? Or are you just going to stick them on a judging panel and hope for the best?
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Most? Wow, what an insult to the vast majority of judges who give up their free time (for no pay) for the sport and do their best to judge impartially.

    And what do you propose happens while all these new judges are being trained? Or are you just going to stick them on a judging panel and hope for the best?
    I think the problem with the judges is that they simply can't be impartial with the way the judging system is setup. There are subject to too much politicking from different federations and too much pressure to score one way that it really hurts the sport and the objectivity of judging. Getting rid of them might help, but like others have suggested, they should become representatives of the ISU and not the representatives of various federations.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    I think the problem with the judges is that they simply can't be impartial with the way the judging system is setup. There are subject to too much politicking from different federations and too much pressure to score one way that it really hurts the sport and the objectivity of judging. Getting rid of them might help, but like others have suggested, they should become representatives of the ISU and not the representatives of various federations.
    At championships all the judges do represent the ISU.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/SEG001OF.HTM

    Unless all the judges are put in hermetically sealed boxes for the whole season or until the ISU invents robot judges, there is no way to prevent politicking. The only way to remove subjectivity from judging is to remove human beings altogether. And if that's not what you are suggesting, you and others are being completely unrealistic.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  18. #98
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    At championships all the judges do represent the ISU.
    Which is really just stupid. If the ISU would admit they represent the countries they come from it would be a lot more transparent. Trying to pretend that a judge nominated by the Antartica-federation doesn't come in with pro-Antartic view points (even if they aren't going to downright cheat to favor their skaters) is just absurd.

  19. #99

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    An update: The petition to remove Cinquanta sponsored by Bill Fauver, Monica Friedlander, et al., now has over 10,000 signatures. Bill is doing his best to reach out to the professional coaching community for support and more signatures. https://www.change.org/petitions/ott...-skating-union

    Also, Peter Murray's petition against Cinquanta now has over 2,700 signatures: https://www.change.org/petitions/isu...-isu-congress#.

    Although it hasn't been without controversy, I'm happy to see these petitions getting continued support and discussion. Let's hope it's all getting noticed by those in authority.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Most? Wow, what an insult to the vast majority of judges who give up their free time (for no pay) for the sport and do their best to judge impartially.

    And what do you propose happens while all these new judges are being trained? Or are you just going to stick them on a judging panel and hope for the best?
    Exactly. Most judges do the right thing. It is not fair to tar the majority based on a minority.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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