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  1. #121
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    The MJ program made me think of a kindergarten costume party. They smiled and they looked cute and it just totally missed the mark. If you want to do MJ properly, you need to show a lot of energy and a lot of sex, so it was never a good idea for them in the first place. Furthermore, Zoueva botched it even more by originally using the Ben Sharf piece for the slow section which didn't fit the MJ music and made it look like two different programs. It was very .

  2. #122

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    I think they made the right choice to change the slow section to Man in the Mirror. However, they should have changed the choreography as well as the moves did not go with the music like at all.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #123
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    Well, they slowed down "Man In The Mirror" and slowing down music to fit your dance is never the right choice. It was probably marginally better than skating to "Ben", but only just.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  4. #124

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    I didn't think it was slower. It's just that they chose the part that's not that final, climatic grand chorus where all the back-up singers go crazy with all the clapping going on.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The MJ program made me think of a kindergarten costume party. They smiled and they looked cute and it just totally missed the mark. If you want to do MJ properly, you need to show a lot of energy and a lot of sex, so it was never a good idea for them in the first place. Furthermore, Zoueva botched it even more by originally using the Ben Sharf piece for the slow section which didn't fit the MJ music and made it look like two different programs. It was very .
    To be fair, I think Michael Jackson programs are, in general, just very difficult to pull off on the ice. Coomes/Buckland's MJ FD this year was worse than the Shibs', and a couple years ago Amodio and Verner tried MJ programs, and neither really worked. I seem to remember Berezhnaya/Shliakov also did an MJ exhibition piece or program, back in the 1990s, and it was fairly bad. To date, the only MJ program I have seen and somewhat liked was Bourne/Kraatz's, but even that wasn't always great and depended on their performance level of the day. So I really can't fault the Shibs too much. In retrospect, I guess it wasn't a very good choice. A successful MJ program does require a ton of energy and speed and also, I think, a lot of showmanship/charisma. The Shibs are a little lacking in all that. Hopefully Massimo can help Marina come up with some better program concepts for them.

  6. #126
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    I dislike Comes/Buckland's program, but she showed some sharp, snappy movements. Maia Shib can do dramatic but seems unable to do sharp.

    I don't understand why Zoueva doesn't give them something lyrically dramatic like Mahler, which could be easily adjusted to one person worried about the other, like the Kerr's missing-in-war program. It was moving to watch her concern and love for her brother when he nearly collapsed after their FD in Colorado Springs (IIRC, unless it was Quebec City). I think they could channel that into an emotionally charged program.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #127
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    The 09 FD highlights what's so special about the Shibutanis. When they're on this team can reach new heights.

    I almost wish they would bring that program back. Wow just wow!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    To be fair, I think Michael Jackson programs are, in general, just very difficult to pull off on the ice. Coomes/Buckland's MJ FD this year was worse than the Shibs
    I wonder if it also hurt The Shibs and Coomes & Buckland that both teams decided to do Michael Jackson programs in the same season? Not only was it challenging for each team individually to hit the right notes, but watched back to back, it may have taken some of the impact away. The programs weren't a total failure, but they both seemed to lose ground compared to their competitors.

    This may be one reason why Gilles & Poirier overtook Coomes/Buckland in the FD, and nearly beat The Shibutanis. Do the judges prefer Hitchcock to MJ? It would be interesting to know if this impacts the overall impression judges have of the choreography and interpretation of a program.

    2014 Worlds FD

    The Shibs - 95.02
    Gilles & Poirier - 94.44
    Sinitsina & Zhighanshin - 93.24
    Coombes & Buckland - 92.45

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/SEG008.HTM

    It seems that music choice and program type can have an impact on the judges. I'm wondering if perhaps MJ programs are considered too low-brow and coarse for the higher levels of ice dance by some of the judges, particularly those with a conservative mindset? It may not be the right vehicle to get to an Olympic or World podium. If I was a skater, I would want to know what the judges are impacted by.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I didn't think it was slower. It's just that they chose the part that's not that final, climatic grand chorus where all the back-up singers go crazy with all the clapping going on.
    Go back and listen to it. They slowed the part that they used down.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Go back and listen to it. They slowed the part that they used down.
    I thought replacing Man in the Mirror was even worse than Ben.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    If I was a skater, I would want to know what the judges are impacted by.
    Choreography and mature skating as opposed to junior skating and programs maybe?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by tourtiere View Post
    Choreography and mature skating as opposed to junior skating and programs maybe?
    Here you go.

    Maia and Alex have been very busy since the competitive season ended. And yet, they put effort into creating a very mature exhibition program which they performed in Japan on the ICE tour. This program includes a wide range of new movements, connecting elements and lifts. It is not just another after-thought program stitching together recycled moves from a competitive program and putting them to different music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8aB...OOrhlQ&index=6

  13. #133

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    Wow, this program is very elegant and I loved the spin/lift at the 2:25 mark with the change of direction. I also loved the lift at the 4:06 mark. This really highlights their strengths. Perhaps the tours and Olympic experience is showing through. I think Maia's dress is gorgeous and fits the music.

  14. #134

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    I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic about the Shibs and their direction. I hope they can get their issues with TES consistency fixed once the competitive season starts.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #135

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    That is a gorgeous program.

    But oddly enough, if you listen to that Coldplay song on youtube, the version the Shibs skated too sounds slower. Their version is way prettier than the music video version on youtube. Is it just me that thinks that? It seems really noticeable.

    All that said, I love that program of theirs, and frankly, "their" version of the song!

    ETA: And does anyone else think Coldplay owes Ryuichi Sakamoto some royalties for sampling 'Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence'?
    Last edited by Coco; 07-24-2014 at 05:26 AM.
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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    Wow. I usually don't care for exhibition programs because they are all too often a lazy scramble of recycled moves done to some abominable piece of popular music (more often than not a wretched cover of what was actually a decent song in its original version), but this program really held my interest. Very nice work from them, and I hope this new direction carries over into their competitive programs for the coming season.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    To be fair, I think Michael Jackson programs are, in general, just very difficult to pull off on the ice. Coomes/Buckland's MJ FD this year was worse than the Shibs', and a couple years ago Amodio and Verner tried MJ programs, and neither really worked. I seem to remember Berezhnaya/Shliakov also did an MJ exhibition piece or program, back in the 1990s, and it was fairly bad. To date, the only MJ program I have seen and somewhat liked was Bourne/Kraatz's, but even that wasn't always great and depended on their performance level of the day. So I really can't fault the Shibs too much. In retrospect, I guess it wasn't a very good choice. A successful MJ program does require a ton of energy and speed and also, I think, a lot of showmanship/charisma. The Shibs are a little lacking in all that. Hopefully Massimo can help Marina come up with some better program concepts for them.
    I thought Coomes/Buckland's program was better, actually, although not the best MJ program ever. I loved Bourne/Kraatz's and Navka/Kostomarov's during the early part of their career was good as well. The Shibutanis' version wasn't totally awful, although that crotch grabbing move that Alex did always made me cringe because it just doesn't fit with his personality and usual very squeaky-clean look.

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