Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 101
  1. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozet View Post
    As a test chair, I've seen very low pass rates on Novice MIF compared to almost all other levels. Even skaters who pass seems to get lowest scores on loops and then twizzles. A few judges who have done figures say that, yes, the blade makes it harder, but also not doing loop on circle makes it harder. I've never skated anywhere near that level or know much about the MIF tests themselves, but the judges seem to think the way loops were done on figures test were easier somehow. It still looks like a tough move to me.
    I personally think loops on a figure is pretty hard! Although I learned them the MIF way so maybe I'm just not used to it. The low pass rate is very true but I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the new content or just the fact that the general skating quality must be drastically higher in Novice. Even before the 2010 updates, I knew a skater who took Novice 10 times before passing.

    FWIW, here is something I posted in another thread that confirms pass rates are lowest for Novice MIF:

    Pre-pre 97.89%
    Pre 89.24%
    Pre-juv 69.50%
    Juv 76.58%
    Int 65.82%
    Int Supp 96.43%
    Nov 49.16%
    Jr 50.47%
    Sr 60.97%
    Sr Supp 65.75%

    It will be interesting to see what the new rates are with removal of Loops and inside twizzles.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-State Pennsylvania
    Posts
    367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I knew a skater who took Novice 10 times before passing.
    Ay yi yi...not what I wanted to hear. My skater has taken the test 4 times. It's actually the last two moves she's weakest on. She's passed by enough judges, just not on the same session. Argh. We're finally switching to a moves specialist with experience with figures.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    132
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    831
    I used to see a lot of re-tries on the old Novice test also. The first 2 moves of the old test used to often set the stage for the rest of the test, back then. Even the old bracket-3-bracket move tripped up a lot of skaters (sometimes literally).

    There's a lot of skills that all come together on the Novice test that rather makes it a "separator" test.

  4. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozet View Post
    Ay yi yi...not what I wanted to hear. My skater has taken the test 4 times. It's actually the last two moves she's weakest on. She's passed by enough judges, just not on the same session. Argh. We're finally switching to a moves specialist with experience with figures.
    I don't have enough experience to tell you why that is, but as a skater I wish that the passing standard would not be so drastic between Int./Nov. It's very discouraging.

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-State Pennsylvania
    Posts
    367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't have enough experience to tell you why that is, but as a skater I wish that the passing standard would not be so drastic between Int./Nov. It's very discouraging.
    You're not the only one I've heard say that. I've had judges tell me that kids who pass Novice will have no problem passing Junior and Senior. I'm not sure whether that means only the kids with talent/determination stick it out after Novice, or that the Novice moves are that much more difficult. Maybe a little of each?

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozet View Post
    You're not the only one I've heard say that. I've had judges tell me that kids who pass Novice will have no problem passing Junior and Senior. I'm not sure whether that means only the kids with talent/determination stick it out after Novice, or that the Novice moves are that much more difficult. Maybe a little of each?
    I don't know what it means but I really feel Novice-Junior-Senior is just Senior1-Senior2-Senior3. I hear of people taking 5 times to pass Novice, then only a couple of times for Junior-Senior.

  7. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,012
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I hear of people taking 5 times to pass Novice, then only a couple of times for Junior-Senior.
    I think some of this can be attributed to the fact that many skaters drop out after the novice experience and don't attempt junior/senior. They pyramid gets smaller every step up.

    If the same number of skaters are trying each of the three tests, and the pass rate is that low on novice, there is a problem- but I don't think nearly as many people attempt junior/senior as novice. Lots of intermediate skaters don't realize what a big jump it is into that level. Novice is where skaters need to truly be good.

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-State Pennsylvania
    Posts
    367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm guessing maybe some of the higher level tests can "test" less experienced coaches as well? If fewer kids taking those tests, less chance to learn yourself how to teach them, especially with new changes that come up based on figures they may not have taken themselves?

  9. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I think some of this can be attributed to the fact that many skaters drop out after the novice experience and don't attempt junior/senior. They pyramid gets smaller every step up.

    If the same number of skaters are trying each of the three tests, and the pass rate is that low on novice, there is a problem- but I don't think nearly as many people attempt junior/senior as novice. Lots of intermediate skaters don't realize what a big jump it is into that level. Novice is where skaters need to truly be good.
    I don't think that explains it fully, or else the pass rate would be incrementally lower with each level, but really the only huge jump is between Int./Nov.

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,458
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    Novice has some new difficult skills (counters, rocker-choctaws, currently loops and backward/double twizzles).

    There are fewer new skills on the junior test: only the sustained rockers and quick rockers and reversing choctaws, and currently the back loops.

    Oh, and currently toe turns.

    By senior, there aren't really any new skills -- just new and in some cases difficult combinations of existing skills. And some of them no longer have to be done on all edges on both feet.

    So in addition to the other reasons already mentioned, it may be more daunting to test some skills for the first time with the expectation of good quality than to put already-mastered skills in new combinations with excellent quality.

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Getting drunk with Athos
    Posts
    5,005
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33935
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I don't think that explains it fully, or else the pass rate would be incrementally lower with each level, but really the only huge jump is between Int./Nov.
    Isn't the pass rate just #of passes/#tests taken? In that case, fewer skaters taking the test wouldn't matter. What would matter would be how many of the skaters taking Jr/Sr pass the tests. And in case they manage to stick with it until they pass Novice, the higher tests seem to get easier for them.

  12. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,012
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    In that case, fewer skaters taking the test wouldn't matter.
    Fewer skaters taking the test, in this case, seems to self select towards more prepared skaters taking the test. Those that can't skate at this level generally stop trying- which I think explains the higher pass rates of jr/sr than novice.

    The tests below novice I think are achievable by most skaters who work towards them. Novice is the kicker where it gets hard. (And the introduction of many new moves is also a very good reason novice is harder.)

  13. #53

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quick question--do other countries also test MITF, or something similar?

  14. #54

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,065
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5116
    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    Quick question--do other countries also test MITF, or something similar?
    I believe Canada does, not sure about others.

  15. #55

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,458
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    We had a thread about testing in various countries in the Trash Can a couple years ago. I just bumped it up:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...ound-the-World

  16. #56

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    17,274
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    30411
    Test manual for Skate Canada skills, with passing standards:
    http://oldsfigureskatingclub.com/wp-...Manual_Eng.pdf

    IIRC when skills were introduced to replace figures, they were linked to competitive levels (as in you had to have passed skills test X to compete at level Y) but that is no longer the case.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  17. #57

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    17,274
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    30411
    Test manual for Skate Canada skills, with passing standards:
    http://oldsfigureskatingclub.com/wp-...Manual_Eng.pdf

    IIRC when skills were introduced to replace figures, they were linked to competitive levels (as in you had to have passed skills test X to compete at level Y) but that is no longer the case.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #58

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    3,300
    vCash
    402
    Rep Power
    4341
    There is nothing more captivating in this world than a woman's form gracing the ice in skating boots. It's simply sensational!

  19. #59

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,575
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42893
    ^^^ I can bump up the Pfenning thread in GSD on this topic? This thread appears to be focused primarily on skating rule changes.

    ETA link to GSD thread: Ron Pfenning Running for U.S. Figure Skating President

    Usually we have an annual GSD thread for USFS' Governing Council news and updates (I can start one closer to May 1st when GC begins).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-24-2014 at 05:19 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #60
    Corgi Wrangler
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Not Wearing Enough Sparkles
    Posts
    6,454
    vCash
    510
    Rep Power
    5546
    Quote Originally Posted by Jozet View Post
    As a test chair, I've seen very low pass rates on Novice MIF compared to almost all other levels. Even skaters who pass seems to get lowest scores on loops and then twizzles. A few judges who have done figures say that, yes, the blade makes it harder, but also not doing loop on circle makes it harder. I've never skated anywhere near that level or know much about the MIF tests themselves, but the judges seem to think the way loops were done on figures test were easier somehow. It still looks like a tough move to me.
    I've been making myself skate (bad, basic, don't look at the tracings please) figures after realizing my edges need work. I'm basically teaching myself so that doesn't help, but loops seem to be one of those things that look like nothing on paper but when you go to DO them...I taught myself brackets back when I started taking lessons (forcing my poor dance coach to work them even though I wasn't anywhere near that MITF yet so at least I'd do them right) and somehow those are easier than loops. (I will say all of a sudden my 3-turns are back where they were five years ago and my inside edges, which are my weaker ones, suddenly improved and I abruptly rotated a forward scratch spin my group teacher was trying to get me to do. Go figures.)

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •