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  1. #581
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    Mukhortova & Trankov were hardly World bronze medal contenders, nevermind potential Olympic champions.

    Perhaps TAT meant no ice dancers who were Olympic champions have ever broken up.

  2. #582

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Come on, you are not trying to persuade us that Mukhortova-Trankov has any chance at all to become Olympic champion, are you? They competed at 5 worlds and didn't even manage to get a medal at either of them. Any medal! they had no chance to be potential Olympic champion.
    Shen & Zhao didn't medal until their 5th World Championship (and they didn't compete in 1995, after competing in 1994. Wikipedia shows them as finishing 2nd at Nationals that year but doesn't list who won and no Chinese team competed at Worlds). They didn't medal at worlds until 5 years after they first competed, didn't win until 8 years after they first competed, and didn't win the Olympics until 16 years later.

    None of that is saying that Mukhortova & Trankov would've had a similar career if they had stuck together, but just that not medaling for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean that a team can't be champions in the future.

  3. #583

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    Shen & Zhao didn't medal until their 5th World Championship (and they didn't compete in 1995, after competing in 1994. Wikipedia shows them as finishing 2nd at Nationals that year but doesn't list who won and no Chinese team competed at Worlds). They didn't medal at worlds until 5 years after they first competed, didn't win until 8 years after they first competed, and didn't win the Olympics until 16 years later.

    None of that is saying that Mukhortova & Trankov would've had a similar career if they had stuck together, but just that not medaling for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean that a team can't be champions in the future.
    The difference is that both Shen and Zhao could land their jumps, whereas Mukhortova mostly couldn't!

  4. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiqie View Post
    I should probably clarify that TAT means "the gift" is the fact that I/K are splitting.
    Thanks for clarifying. Even as a non-Russian I cannot see the fact that I/K are splitting as a gift for the rest of the world, but of course according to TAT, "the rest of the world" must mean half a dozen medal contenders. The figure skating world is small.
    Last edited by Asli; 04-18-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    The team event produced an Olympic champion team but no one on the team is Olympic champion?
    Volosozhar/Trankov are olympic champions and they were on the team as well.

  6. #586
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    Rankle as it may, the fact is that everyone on that Russian OGM-winning skating team is now an Olympic champion.
    Like a leaf on the wind

  7. #587

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    Quote Originally Posted by quiqie View Post
    I should probably clarify that TAT means "the gift" is the fact that I/K are splitting.
    Hm. I thought she meant that I/K's skating was the gift. Though, she is right that the split is a gift to a number of other teams. Ice dance is going to get really interesting, given that no team is dominant yet in the absence of I/K.

  8. #588

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    Quote Originally Posted by quiqie View Post
    I should probably clarify that TAT means "the gift" is the fact that I/K are splitting.
    The split as a gift for their competition, that is. TAT was being sarcastic ( sorry, I know you know, just reiterating with the quote).
    improving my ballad- like lines

  9. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messalina View Post
    Rankle as it may, the fact is that everyone on that Russian OGM-winning skating team is now an Olympic champion.
    IMO it's great that more skaters have an opportunity to win olympic medals. These will be always mentioned as olympic medalists in the team event, so it's not as if they were cheating! I don't understand why some fans are so mean.

  10. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messalina View Post
    Rankle as it may, the fact is that everyone on that Russian OGM-winning skating team is now an Olympic champion.
    I don't agree with that characterization. They were members of the Olympic champion team, but not themselves Olympic champions.

    Kemar Bailey-Cole was on the Jamaican team that won the men's 4x100 meter relay at the Olympics in 2012, but he is not himself an Olympic champion, even though he did receive a gold medal.

  11. #591

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I don't agree with that characterization. They were members of the Olympic champion team, but not themselves Olympic champions.

    Kemar Bailey-Cole was on the Jamaican team that won the men's 4x100 meter relay at the Olympics in 2012, but he is not himself an Olympic champion, even though he did receive a gold medal.
    You're in distinction without a difference territory here. Winning the gold medal at the Olympics makes you Olympic Champions no matter what event the medal is won in - the title goes with the medal.
    When watching live I like everyone to skate clean - but on television the occasional trainwreck can be fun.

  12. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    It seems like people (by people I mean non-skating fans who haven't suffered from bias and animosity that has been festering for years) who have been exposed to Meryl Davis seem to think she looks like a Disney princess (and unlike here, that's seen as a good thing by the general public). On DWTS, from what little I've read, it seems audiences who watch that show and write about it online have been fawning over her, including her looks.
    Meryl must be one of these people who are so charming in person that others forget about their physical imperfections and even view these as beauty marks. Plus, she always presents herself well, which is part of the beauty package in anyone.
    Last edited by temp; 04-19-2014 at 02:00 AM.

  13. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I don't agree with that characterization. They were members of the Olympic champion team, but not themselves Olympic champions.

    Kemar Bailey-Cole was on the Jamaican team that won the men's 4x100 meter relay at the Olympics in 2012, but he is not himself an Olympic champion, even though he did receive a gold medal.
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingguy View Post
    You're in distinction without a difference territory here. Winning the gold medal at the Olympics makes you Olympic Champions no matter what event the medal is won in - the title goes with the medal.
    I agree with skating guy: that's a distinction without a difference (well put).

    In other words, AS members of the Olympic champion team, they ARE themselves Olympic champions.

    No one out in the great wide world is putting asterisks next to winners' names to impart "undeserved OGM because weak link of team" or suchlike.

    I also love the fact that there are now more medals to go around, ala gymnastics! I just hope the team event really does motivate more countries to up their ante in more disciplines because the path to the podium is not nearly exciting and suspenseful enough. (Also, scoring def needs to be tweaked so no team can already be a winner on paper with one skate left to go.)
    Like a leaf on the wind

  14. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Ulanov and Mishkutenok retired after achieving all their goals - world and olympic champions. This is retirement, not splitting with a partner. I/K, OTOH, are technically olympic champions from the team event, but they have no gold medals in ice dance. Neither of them has retired. They were at the beginning of their best years. So there is absolutely no comparison.
    Ulanov did not retire: he dumped Rodnina to skate with his girlfriend, Ludmilla Smirnova, with whom he won the 1973 and 1974 Worlds silver medals.

    ETA: Sorry, I missed Vagabond's earlier post.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingguy View Post
    You're in distinction without a difference territory here. Winning the gold medal at the Olympics makes you Olympic Champions no matter what event the medal is won in - the title goes with the medal.
    It's a very real difference.

    Let's look at it another way. Soccer is a team sport. If you're on the gold-medal winning soccer team, you are not the Olympic champion; your team is. The fact that the figure skating team competition has eight segments in which up to six distinct singles, pairs, and ice dance couples participate doesn't alter the fact that it's the team, not the separate skaters, who are the champion.

    Or you can look at it like this: Russia's victory was recorded as one gold medal, not six, and not eight. The team was the champion, and I&K were part of that team.

  16. #596

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    It's a very real difference.

    Let's look at it another way. Soccer is a team sport. If you're on the gold-medal winning soccer team, you are not the Olympic champion; your team is. The fact that the figure skating team competition has eight segments in which up to six distinct singles, pairs, and ice dance couples participate doesn't alter the fact that it's the team, not the separate skaters, who are the champion.

    Or you can look at it like this: Russia's victory was recorded as one gold medal, not six, and not eight. The team was the champion, and I&K were part of that team.
    A very real difference only to you, it seems. If you're on the gold-medal winning soccer team, you are an Olympic champion. You stood on the podium with a gold medal around your neck. Ditto for skating. In Russia, all the Olympic champions received new cars--you can see Lipnitskaya and B/S all have a car of their own, not 1/10 of a car.

  17. #597
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    Not this shit again.

  18. #598
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    when a team won gold in the olympics you say russia won the team event and not all the names
    so russia is the olympic champion and they are members of team russia

  19. #599
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    Obviously there is no precedent for Olympic Champions in the Team Event to split, because there was never an Olympic TE before.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    I'm not a fan of TAT, but she is absolutely right about Morozov. Regardless of the personal issues, he should have been in control of his golden skaters. Their split is absolutely his fault. TAT even managed to keep Grishuk and Platov together during Grishuk's crazy Pasha days and they were already older and Olympic champions, so much harder to keep together than a young up and coming team with the brightest future and all the potential for Olympic Gold.

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