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  1. #21
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    4cc = Euros?
    There's a quote from John Kerr in the latest skating magazine that is something along the lines of "we used to get really upset when people compared US Nationals to Euros, but having been here now, it really is very similar"

  2. #22
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    U.S Nationals is even bigger than Four Continents though. It attracts a much stronger field. After all Fumie won Four Continents more times than she ever would have U.S Nationals.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcustire View Post
    Malinina would have won silver at the 99 worlds had she not stepped out of her combination in the short.
    well, bronze had Kwan not had her own SP issues but I catch your drift. It was a very good year for her. It was a shame she couldn't keep that level up for more than a couple of years. But as a viewer, it is always great to see someone step out of the shadows and have their day in the sun, even make it to US TV! but back to Resume: consistent GP medals of any color like Cohen, Kwan and Irina got will always be a stronger resume than a one time "got lucky" gold.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    well, bronze had Kwan not had her own SP issues but I catch your drift. It was a very good year for her. It was a shame she couldn't keep that level up for more than a couple of years. But as a viewer, it is always great to see someone step out of the shadows and have their day in the sun, even make it to US TV! but back to Resume: consistent GP medals of any color like Cohen, Kwan and Irina got will always be a stronger resume than a one time "got lucky" gold.
    I can see your point but in this comparision that is not a plus for Fumie but yet another one for Sasha. Sasha was a far more consistent and strong grand prix performer than Fumie. She medalled in almost every grand prix she ever entered, and only once was lower than 4th. She won almost every grand prix she was in during her prime from 2003-2006. How many grand prixs has Fumie won in her long career, 1 or 2 only I believe, and she has a huge number of horrible finishes, even before she entered her granny stage. OP tries to potray as Fumie better in the grand prix since she has more medals which is kind of a joke, since if you skate 20 years of course you will have more medals, but even then she had far fewer wins. Heck Fumie could only qualify for the grand prix final itself once on her own despite skating the full grand prix about 10 times, she got in 2003 as an alternate only.

    I dont really understand the OP's logic in this . Saying Fumie might have had the better career with doing worse or no better (usually worse) than Sasha in Olympics, worlds, grand prix final, all because she won a medal at the Goodwill Games, won more National titles vs weaker competition, did better at Four Continents due to Sasha never skating, and more grand prix medals due to competing in like 30-35 grand prixs? There is a better argument Slutskaya had a better career than Michelle Kwan (which btw I would never argue either) than this. Atleast you could say Irina did as well or better everywhere except worlds and Nationals, and if Four Continents is important comparing Fumie and Sasha, then Irina won Europeans 7 times and Michelle 4CCs never. Even saying Irina had a better career than Michelle unless she had won the Olympic gold is borderline laughable though, which puts this comparision even more into perspective.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Personally, I don't give much credit to the cheese fest they call GPF
    Cheese fest? What does GPF even remotely have in common with something like Marshall's?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  6. #26

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    Fumie & Sasha? So random. I would never have thought to compare these two.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Cheese fest? What does GPF even remotely have in common with something like Marshall's?
    If the GPF is a cheesefest, I think that means that Worlds, Olympics, and maybe Euros are the only competitions that are not?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    Fumie & Sasha? So random. I would never have thought to compare these two.
    When you think about it though, it kind of makes sense. Two skaters who were never good enough to win a really big title like Worlds or Olympics, but were always top 5 and often on the podium. Wannabee rivals to Kwan, who never really were. Both probably fall firmly under that second tier category of top skater.

  9. #29
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    Fumie Who?

    Sasha my dear.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiazumi View Post
    Fumie Who?

    Sasha my dear.
    Fumie the winner of 4 world medals, 1 more than Sasha could manage. Fumie, who would have won the 2004 worlds had she not bombed the qualifying round, and the 2005 worlds had she done her 4CCs performances.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispermink View Post
    Fumie the winner of 4 world medals, 1 more than Sasha could manage. Fumie, who would have won the 2004 worlds had she not bombed the qualifying round, and the 2005 worlds had she done her 4CCs performances.
    *le sigh* Nicole Bobek would have won 1995 Worlds had she done her 1998 Nationals performances.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispermink View Post
    Fumie, who would have won the 2004 worlds had she not bombed the qualifying round, and the 2005 worlds had she done her 4CCs performances.
    And I would have won 2000 worlds if I had learned how to skate, and managed to do it better than Michelle Kwan.

    Um- it makes NO sense to give Fumie 'credit' for her supposed ability to win worlds, assuming she hadn't skated poorly. Can't you say the same for Sasha? Sasha- who would have won worlds, if she scored more points.

  13. #33
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    Even if Fumie were an American she would have 3 or 4 National titles, as many or more as the 3 she has now, while Sasha would have none. Fumie would have won the 2005 nationals with her 4CCs performance which were on at almost the same time. She would have won the 2006 nationals with her Japanese National performances where she was amazing and beat a clean Mao Asada. She would have won the 2009 U.S Nationals with her Japanese Nationals performances. She might have won the 2007 and/or 2008 U.S Nationals too. So 3 or 4 National titles for Fumie just like she has now, and poor Sasha with 0.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    *le sigh* Nicole Bobek would have won 1995 Worlds had she done her 1998 Nationals performances.
    No, she wouldnt have. Only 4 clean triples, a couple of mistakes (a doubled jump, and hands down on another) and a silly Dr. Zhivago program vs Chen's 5 clean triples and stunning program. Now had she had only 1 fall instead of 2 she would have won worlds after she landed her triple flutz-triple toe/turn out at worlds, but not with her National performances.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    And I would have won 2000 worlds if I had learned how to skate, and managed to do it better than Michelle Kwan.

    Um- it makes NO sense to give Fumie 'credit' for her supposed ability to win worlds, assuming she hadn't skated poorly. Can't you say the same for Sasha? Sasha- who would have won worlds, if she scored more points.
    People are taking away from Fumie's National titles though because she wasnt American. I am just pointing out they are wrong. People are also saying Fumie didnt have the ability to win Worlds, and on that they are also wrong. She had the ability to win Worlds, just like Sasha did and also didnt do.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispermink View Post
    No, she wouldnt have. Only 4 clean triples, a couple of mistakes (a doubled jump, and hands down on another) and a silly Dr. Zhivago program vs Chen's 5 clean triples and stunning program. Now had she had only 1 fall instead of 2 she would have won worlds after she landed her triple flutz-triple toe/turn out at worlds, but not with her National performances.
    Oh, c'mon, you can't be serious? Or can you??

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Oh, c'mon, you can't be serious? Or can you??
    You are the one who cant be serious. If you think Nicole's Nationals performance with only 4 clean triples and to a program that looked juniorish compared to Chen's would have won worlds. She wouldnt have even won Nationals over Kwan with that performance had Kwan done her worlds performance, and Kwan's world performance didnt even medal or come close to beating Chen for the title.

  18. #38

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    I can't imagine that anyone ever considered Fumie to be a rival for Michelle. Sasha was, every time she skated (well at the beginning of the skate). Sasha was breath taking to watch. Fumie was sometimes quite lovely, but didn't rise IMO to the Sasha level. Or Bobek, either.

    If you just want to do a medal count...........ok. That works out however the numbers work out. But those stats could be manipulated if you adjust for where, other competitors, etc.

    My first thought when I saw the topic was: Well, Sasha, duh. How many people would go to see Fumie in a show? Not all that many. Sasha pulls in an audience.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    I can't imagine that anyone ever considered Fumie to be a rival for Michelle. Sasha was, every time she skated (well at the beginning of the skate).
    Sasha beat Michelle Kwan less times than Butyrskaya did. By your logic Butyrskaya must be a rival to Kwan. Sorry Sasha was no rival to Kwan. Kwan's only real rivals ever were Tara and Slutskaya.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispermink View Post
    Fumie the winner of 4 world medals, 1 more than Sasha could manage. Fumie, who would have won the 2004 worlds had she not bombed the qualifying round, and the 2005 worlds had she done her 4CCs performances.
    But the Japanese pushed her away so fast once Mao came on. Unlike Sasha, Fumie was not memorable nationally or internationally. I liked her for a period before she decided to keep going.

    And Sasha is a silver Olympic Medalist.

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