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  1. #121
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    Well, Sasha. They both have GPF golds, but Sasha has two world silvers to Suguri's one, and an Olympic silver. Sasha also won quite a few Grand Prix events for a couple of seasons. I don't recall Suguri winning that many grand prix events, and her 4 continent wins came at a time when the best skaters usually didn't go.

    Sasha.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    Well, Sasha. They both have GPF golds, but Sasha has two world silvers to Suguri's one, and an Olympic silver. Sasha also won quite a few Grand Prix events for a couple of seasons. I don't recall Suguri winning that many grand prix events, and her 4 continent wins came at a time when the best skaters usually didn't go.

    Sasha.
    Fumie's silver also was at a post Olympic worlds, so not even a real worlds. Both Sasha's silvers came at real worlds with everyone there.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Fumie's silver also was at a post Olympic worlds, so not even a real worlds. Both Sasha's silvers came at real worlds with everyone there.
    Still beat Cohen, though.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Still beat Cohen, though.
    I remember watching Cohen at those Worlds and she really deteriorated during her free skate. Yet Suguri only beat her marginally (albeit with a terrible program). But speaking of those Worlds, does anyone know what's become of Kimmie Meissner? Did she retire?

  5. #125
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    Meissner retired after yet another injury in fall 2008.

  6. #126
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    I see, thanks for that.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Meissner retired after yet another injury in fall 2008.
    She received two Grand Prix assignments for the 2009-10 season but couldn't take them up due to injury.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  8. #128

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    I don't think Meissner retired until her injuries took her out for the 2009-2010 Olympic season. I remember watching a cute video of her working on her movement and line with a Hungarian specialist after 2008.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  9. #129
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    I think National titles DO matter and Fumie is much better known and remembered for her skating career, in Japan - even today - than Sasha is for hers, in the US.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSkates View Post
    I think National titles DO matter and Fumie is much better known and remembered for her skating career, in Japan - even today - than Sasha is for hers, in the US.
    If this is true, why do we never see Fumie in ice shows anymore? I'm pretty sure Sasha Cohen would be welcome on the SOI tour if she wanted.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    Fair enough but it's kinda weird to me that you don't seem to disregard the GP events individually yet in the next breath you denounce the GPF as a cheesefest. I think most would agree it's worth more than the individual GP events.
    When looking at GP events, it is twisting the data ignore Cohen's 5 wins to Suguri's one, so talk instead in terms of GP medals because Suguri has more of those.

    Seguri skated in 26 GP events over 13 seasons, only won one, and was on the podium in less than half of them.
    Cohen skated in 11 senior GP events over 5 seasons, winning 5 of them and making the podium in all but 3 (those 3 all before her first trip to senior Worlds).

    You also seem to be ignoring Cohen's first Olympics. In two Olympics Cohen finished 4th and 2nd, Seguri 5th and 4th.

    I don't get how there is any argument that Suguri had as good a competitive career, just a lot longer one.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post

    I don't get how there is any argument that Suguri had as good a competitive career, just a lot longer one.
    It's going to be a long off-season ahead...
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    When looking at GP events, it is twisting the data ignore Cohen's 5 wins to Suguri's one, so talk instead in terms of GP medals because Suguri has more of those.

    Seguri skated in 26 GP events over 13 seasons, only won one, and was on the podium in less than half of them.
    Cohen skated in 11 senior GP events over 5 seasons, winning 5 of them and making the podium in all but 3 (those 3 all before her first trip to senior Worlds).

    You also seem to be ignoring Cohen's first Olympics. In two Olympics Cohen finished 4th and 2nd, Seguri 5th and 4th.

    I don't get how there is any argument that Suguri had as good a competitive career, just a lot longer one.
    Some people could potentially argue that Suguri should've placed ahead of Cohen at both Olympics. But of course, that's ' potentially should've' rather than the reality so that probably doesn't count!

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Some people could potentially argue that Suguri should've placed ahead of Cohen at both Olympics. But of course, that's ' potentially should've' rather than the reality so that probably doesn't count!
    I could see the argument perhaps for SLC but neither deserved to be on the podium anyway. In Turin I see no case for Fumie finishing ahead of Sasha, and also completely agree with both their final placings. I never got the few Fumie wuzrobbed arguments for an extremely boring and sloppy looking program with only 5 triples, some with shaky landings, and when she was well behind after the short program (and compared to Irina and Sasha deservedly so as both had incredible shorts) anyway. Sasha meanwhile had a better performance in the free skate than Irina, even if both had major errors.

  15. #135
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    I personally had Suguri ahead of Cohen at the 2002 Olympics but like you, I had Cohen ahead in Turin. Suguri truly had a terrible long program that year. Don't know what Lori Nichol was thinking with that one.

  16. #136
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    Suguri didnt even deserve to beat Rochette in Turin. She was overscored if anything. With that boring ass long program that year and the amazing short programs of Slutskaya and Cohen, she would have had to skate a squeeky clean 6 triple long to even have a chance. She also would have had to hit her spin levels which she didnt do in turin, and had fixed at worlds, but too late to help her medal hopes in Turin.

    As for the 2002 Olympics Suguri landed less triples than Slutskaya, Kwan, and Cohen (all made 6, her only 5), doubled a major jump, didnt have spins to compare to Slutskaya or Cohen, her spirals didnt even come up to Slutskaya's level let alone the 3 Americans, and while some loved her Moonlight Sonata I thought it was similar to Rach. in some ways. A way better program than Rachmaninoff but for Fumie still too slow and lyrical and showing her major weaknesses in stretch, extension, posture, line. She deserved a much higher placing in the short than 7th and maybe then would have been scored better in the long, but I honestly thought her placement was right.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Still beat Cohen, though.
    Yeah she barely beat Cohen with her worst free skate ever by less than a point, while still getting upset herself for the title by almost 10 points by a 16 year old relative nobody. What a huge honor, lol!

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by grassroots39 View Post
    Suguri didnt even deserve to beat Rochette in Turin. She was overscored if anything. With that boring ass long program that year and the amazing short programs of Slutskaya and Cohen, she would have had to skate a squeeky clean 6 triple long to even have a chance. She also would have had to hit her spin levels which she didnt do in turin, and had fixed at worlds, but too late to help her medal hopes in Turin.

    I think this is the first time ever that I'm hearing that Suguri didn't deserve to beat Rochette in Turin.
    Suguri was undermarked in Turin and should have been closer to Arakawa in the SP.


    Quote Originally Posted by grassroots39 View Post
    As for the 2002 Olympics Suguri landed less triples than Slutskaya, Kwan, and Cohen (all made 6, her only 5), doubled a major jump, didnt have spins to compare to Slutskaya or Cohen, her spirals didnt even come up to Slutskaya's level let alone the 3 Americans, and while some loved her Moonlight Sonata I thought it was similar to Rach. in some ways. A way better program than Rachmaninoff but for Fumie still too slow and lyrical and showing her major weaknesses in stretch, extension, posture, line. She deserved a much higher placing in the short than 7th and maybe then would have been scored better in the long, but I honestly thought her placement was right.

    At least you admit that she deserved a higher placement in the SP. Btw, Kwan didn't land 6 clean triples and Cohen and Slutskaya both had at least one iffy landing.

  19. #139
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    I don't understand this thread. Is there even a doubt ?
    In term of medals and records, Sasha Cohen wins it. And in term of impact in the sport, Sasha Cohen wins it. IMO, there is no doubt, Sasha Cohen had the best career.

  20. #140
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    Sasha dumps all over Fumie, both in standard of career and standard of skater. Yeah I know her basics arent great, blah blah but given that she is better than Fumie in practically everything else, and Fumie has several glaring weaknesses in her skating much worse than Sasha's improved basics of her prime years, she is still better.

    As for quality of career Sasha has Fumie beat in Olympic results, world results, grand prix final results, grand prix results, every category you can even accurately compare them Sasha wins, and usually by a wide margin.

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