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  1. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    But re-watching the top 5 2005 Worlds FDs....I still think Delobel/Schoenfelder had the FD of the night. It was really that good. You should watch it if you haven't seen it in a while.
    I went and watched D&S's FD--yes, it was good. I think I prefer their FD from '07 Worlds, though. That dance was just engrossing IMO.

  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiero425 View Post
    What mistake did Slutskaya make?
    I think the reference is to freeskate errors. I think the poster was right that the judges did not expect Hughes' marks to hold up but the favorites took themselves out of it with FS errors/omissions.
    As a matter of fact, the mistake was with the judges placing Kwan above everyone in first place after the short program! ... If not for that bogus and gutless act with the Games being in SLC, Maria would have won the Olympics since Hughes was in 4th place after the SP!
    Maria? Do you mean Irina? The highest finishing Maria was Butyrskaya, who placed 5th in the SP and 6th in the FS.

  3. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I think the reference is to freeskate errors. I think the poster was right that the judges did not expect Hughes' marks to hold up but the favorites took themselves out of it with FS errors/omissions.


    Maria? Do you mean Irina? The highest finishing Maria was Butyrskaya, who placed 5th in the SP and 6th in the FS.
    Yeah, sorry; meant Irina! Maria was fortunate to take 2 Worlds; only one earned or should I say gifted by Michelle!

  4. #684
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    Maria does not have 2 world titles. She has only 1. She was close to winning a 2nd probably in 2000, I think she was just a triple salchow (either one since she missed two) away. Thank goodness she didnt win 2 as she would have been by far the worst 2 time World Champion ever. Right now Miki Ando probably is, but Miki was a way better skater than Maria based on her jumping ability alone.

  5. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiero425 View Post
    Yeah, sorry; meant Irina! Maria was fortunate to take 2 Worlds; only one earned or should I say gifted by Michelle!
    You seem to have Irina and Maria in a right muddle.

  6. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    You seem to have Irina and Maria in a right muddle.
    Just tired all the time; sleep apnea! My memory's failing me more and more trying to hark back 20 - 30 years of my experience in tennis history and figure skating! I was simultaneously thinking of the 2 occasions Maria actually beat Irina at the height of her powers; NHK GP event around 2000 and Japan Open! Maria skated the best at that NHK event where she put in 2 triple lutzes; and they were great! You remember how stiff her legs were; weren't that night? It was such a joke how commentators fawned over her; the maturity and real lady-like skating! "(BARF)" I did love that SP from around then using Emma Shapplin's, Cuor Senza Sangue! I can replay that program music all day long! - Update: OMG, that belonged to Surya Bonaly around that time! My memory is truly failing me since that birthday last week! I meant Sarah Brightman's, "Scene d'Amour!" That is gorgeous music!
    Last edited by Fiero425; 05-06-2014 at 09:24 PM.

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by grassroots39 View Post
    Maria does not have 2 world titles. She has only 1. She was close to winning a 2nd probably in 2000, I think she was just a triple salchow (either one since she missed two) away. Thank goodness she didnt win 2 as she would have been by far the worst 2 time World Champion ever. Right now Miki Ando probably is, but Miki was a way better skater than Maria based on her jumping ability alone.
    For some reason I thought she repeated after MK gifted '99! I must have been thinking of her double at Europeans! It's almost over; senility, entropy, and more!

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    Maria actually lost to Irina at 2000 NHK, and many people thought Maria was robbed of that title.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maria actually lost to Irina at 2000 NHK, and many people thought Maria was robbed of that title.
    That was also the last time she ever again looked like a skater who could even challenge Kwan and Slutskaya. Which is probably not a coincidence.

  10. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maria actually lost to Irina at 2000 NHK, and many people thought Maria was robbed of that title.
    That was also the last time she ever again looked like a skater who could even challenge Kwan and Slutskaya. Which is probably not a coincidence.

  11. #691
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    2000 NHK was a horribly judged competition. Not only was Butyrskaya robbed of the win but Nikodinov was robbed of a medal too. In fact, I'd have placed the long program 1) But 2) Nik 3) Slute 4) Malinina Had Nikodinov skated that long program at worlds three months later, she would have probably done just enough to medal.

  12. #692

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    Kwan lost a few close calls to Irina as well (not as much as people made it out to be prior to SLC though), but she ended up fighting back and never gave up. Maria probably didn't have that same mentality. She also suffered a bit more due to Irina getting obvious federation support, while Kwan knew she had the USFS' backing.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Maria actually lost to Irina at 2000 NHK, and many people thought Maria was robbed of that title.
    That is what I meant; that Maria had outskated Irina, but they gave the Gold to Slutskaya! I didn't feel sorry for her since Maria had been propped up more than a few times in European GP events! Sorry guys! Scrambled brains on a plate right here! I need to start going back to check my grammar and facts! I'm losin' it!

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Kwan lost a few close calls to Irina as well (not as much as people made it out to be prior to SLC though), but she ended up fighting back and never gave up. Maria probably didn't have that same mentality. She also suffered a bit more due to Irina getting obvious federation support, while Kwan knew she had the USFS' backing.
    And to be fair, Maria was months away from the big 3-0 when she ended her career. Neither Kwan or Slute lasted that long. Maybe Slute might have if she wanted to but she didn't try. Come to think of it, we rarely heard about Slute having injuries throughout her career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    And to be fair, Maria was months away from the big 3-0 when she ended her career. Neither Kwan or Slute lasted that long. Maybe Slute might have if she wanted to but she didn't try. Come to think of it, we rarely heard about Slute having injuries throughout her career.
    Maria also got lots of rest when she failed to qualify Russian women for Lillehammer! The Fed had to be furious with her apparent meltdown! I didn't see it, but it must have been terrible for there not to be at least one to qualify for world comp. that season! I think I heard her car was bombed shortly before their championships one year! It's a wonder she held on for so long! Even Surya left the Am. ranks before 30!

  16. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiero425 View Post
    Maria also got lots of rest when she failed to qualify Russian women for Lillehammer!
    Her chances to ever firmly be Russian #1 (other than by default when nobody else was there, like 1999 when Irina went off the rocker) pretty much went out the window right then and there. They were always going to look for another option. At first it was Markova, and then when Markova fell off badly and Irina rose they went to her. Had Irina stayed off course they would have looked to someone else, maybe Volchkova for instance who would have magically won silver or gold at the 2001 worlds for the same performances that placed her 6th as Russian #3. The moment Maria lost her consistency after her world title, which happened basically immediately, or lost her world title which happened in 2000, someone else, anyone else, would have been pushed to be new Russian #1 with or without Irina.

  17. #697
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    Pairs: I think M/D should have won gold. Their weren’t good before Olympics however, and it was already decided who would win. Both G/G and M/D skated beautifully, but G/G made more mistakes than M/D. The audience in the arena also felt M/D were cheated.

    Men: I don’t remember men’s competition that much. But I think I had nothing against Urmanov’s victory. He was so elegant.

    Dance: I didn't like G/P dance. It was frantic and lacked grace. And it also broke rules. Their speed did nothing for me. After years I tried to warm up to it, but in vain. Still it isn’t a gold medal performance for me. In my opinion G/P didn’t even deserve silver. For me T/D were winners. Their OD was perfect, but I also liked their smooth, elegant and mature FD. However if their lift really violated the rules, and G/P would have also been given deductions, I would accept U/Z victory. Their FD dance wasn’t captivating though. Their OD on the other hand was much better than G/P’s OD.
    Does anybody know why Russian Fed changed their support from U/Z to G/P?

    Ladies: I never liked Nancy, and didn’t want her to win. But in my opinion she deserved gold more than Oksana, whose FP was easier and had mistakes.

  18. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossig View Post
    Does anybody know why Russian Fed changed their support from U/Z to G/P?
    I have always wondered about this. On paper, U&Z were such a safe bet and G&P were always on the brink of scandal/split/retirement, so there is no reason why the Russian Fed should have switched their support to G&P. I'm guessing it's because they thought Dubova has lost the plot after what she did to K&P.

  19. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiero425 View Post
    For some reason I thought she repeated after MK gifted '99!
    Maria didn't win in 1999 because Michelle "gifted" her the gold. On this occasion, she outskated Michelle and everyone else; the result was in no way controversial. She never outskated Michelle again except in the Worlds 2000 SP, but just because a usually superior skater fails to win a competition doesn't mean she's giving away gifts.

    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    And to be fair, Maria was months away from the big 3-0 when she ended her career. Neither Kwan or Slute lasted that long. Maybe Slute might have if she wanted to but she didn't try. Come to think of it, we rarely heard about Slute having injuries throughout her career.
    In the last three years of her career, Irina suffered from vasculitis, a fairly serious illness or group of illnesses. This almost certainly accounted for her 9th place at Worlds 2004, and despite her 2005 Worlds win, may also have been a factor in her weary-looking performances at the Turin Olympics.
    Last edited by orientalplane; 05-14-2014 at 03:39 PM.

  20. #700

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    I went and watched D&S's FD--yes, it was good. I think I prefer their FD from '07 Worlds, though. That dance was just engrossing IMO.
    I love Frida too best on the night .I like their GGITS best though

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