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  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Thanks for the info. I guess if you train with Linichuk, you need outside help for the choreography.
    Definitely. Linichuk seems to emphasize parts or segments but they're rarely weaved together very well at all. There are often too many open spots in the choreography where the skaters would skate hand to hand or side by side so they could stroke like crazy and gain incredible speed and momentum. The speed would be much more impressive without all the open handholds that her programs often use far too often. G&P did that in their 95 OD as it was skated almost entirely face to face and very very close together but I had once read somewhere years ago (and I'm not sure if it's true) that Linichuk had not choreographed it. Ditto with their 97 tango OD.

  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    I agree, but it also concealed the lack of depth in their program. It's kind of like a movie with so many special effects that it makes you forget that the plot is rather thin.



    I liked their youthfulness and energy, but that doesn't mean I necessarily think it deserved to win. What were the ordinals? Anybody know?
    I believe G&P had first place ordinals from Russia, Germany, Canada, France, and Czech Republic, one second place ordinal from Finland, and third place ordinals from Great Britain, Ukraine, and Belarus. Great Britain had Torvill & Dean first and U&Z in second. Ukraine and Belarus had U&Z first with T&D in second.

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    So whenever her pupils deliver a mediocre performance and then ask her how they did, does she respond with, "Have you ever considered a career at McDonald's?"?
    I wouldn't be surprised. I had also once read on the internet somewhere (which you have to take with a grain of salt of course as who knows what the source ever is) that Linichuk said nothing to Torvill & Dean at the 1994 Europeans when they won the gold due to the weird placements and ordinal flip. But when G&P won the gold at the Olympics and T&D won the bronze, she apparently said to them 'congratulations for losing'. But again, that might be a complete lie that someone had made up and circulated on the internet years ago.

  4. #464
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    But when G&P won the gold at the Olympics and T&D won the bronze, she apparently said to them 'congratulations for losing'.
    Apparently she didn't congratulate them for losing, but for winning bronze. Though it probably meant the same for them.

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    Apparently she didn't congratulate them for losing, but for winning bronze. Though it probably meant the same for them.
    According to T/D's autobio, she simply said 'Congratulations'.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyjosie View Post
    According to T/D's autobio, she simply said 'Congratulations'.
    I see. It's a good thing she actually didn't come out and say congratulations for losing then.

  7. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    I see. It's a good thing she actually didn't come out and say congratulations for losing then.
    I think it amounted to the same thing. Congratulating T&D for "winning" bronze surely could only have been mockery.

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    I think it amounted to the same thing. Congratulating T&D for "winning" bronze surely could only have been mockery.
    Quite, I think, as she allegedly had not congratulated them on winning at the Europeans, but did so after they had been beaten by her students at the next event. I must admit it makes her look mean (given that it is the truth).

  9. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Anjelika Krylova took garish facial expressions to completely new heights. It was over the top, lacked sincerity, and served to distract attention away from mediocre content. I would argue something similar for G&P's 1994 FD. Her overzealous exuberance (although she wasn't as overzealous as Krylova) served to distract attention away from the mediocre content of their program that year. It was style over substance. That's perfectly objective IMO. But yes, vomit inducing is much more of a personal opinion. As I mentioned, the artistic component is rarely 'objective' per se as it's not a stop-watch, finish line, or even assessing degrees of difficulty. But still, her interpretation of Carmen was deeply distracting as there was little playfulness or flirty sensuality (although like others have mentioned, Linichuk can do neither it seems). Instead, she portrayed Carmen as a deeply evil psychopath. I also found them kind of jerky and spastic. But again, this is sometimes a problem with many of Linichuk's teams.
    I always liked K/O as a team, but this rings true. This is a conversation between Terry Gannon and Dick Button at 1998 Worlds referring to her and their Carmen program:

    Dick Button: Certainly not the Carmen we're used to....you'll notice also that there is an extreme expressiveness, on her part in particular.

    Terry Gannon: Does it work for you?

    Dick Button: No. I find her absolutely beautiful and fascinating, but as one newspaper said, her expressiveness will reach the 70th row of the arena, unfortunately there are only 30 rows in it.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyjosie View Post
    Quite, I think, as she allegedly had not congratulated them on winning at the Europeans, but did so after they had been beaten by her students at the next event. I must admit it makes her look mean (given that it is the truth).
    She definitely comes across as abrasive.

  11. #471
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    Maybe Natalia was genuinely congratulating T&D on their bronze. After all she last time she was in the Olympics with them in some vacinity they were 5th. It might be stupid, but her intentions might have been good. She often seems clueless when choreographing her teams, so who is to say she is always "all there".

  12. #472
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    It's definitely debatable in terms of whether she's all there or not. Illegalities are such an issue with so many of her students programs that it's incredible! She's either clueless or didn't care and broke the rules anyways. She got away with it most of the time too except for Denkova & Staviski's 2 extended lifts at the 2006 Olympics.

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    I believe G&P had first place ordinals from Russia, Germany, Canada, France, and Czech Republic, one second place ordinal from Finland, and third place ordinals from Great Britain, Ukraine, and Belarus. Great Britain had Torvill & Dean first and U&Z in second. Ukraine and Belarus had U&Z first with T&D in second.
    Thanks for the info. So it wasn't unanimous first-place marks by any means. Who did Finland have in first? A lot of people seem outraged when you suggest that G&P's FD wasn't far and away the best, but obviously four judges didn't think it was. Whether they took any deductions would be interesting to know.

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    She definitely comes across as abrasive.
    Well, next time I'm cleaning the sink and am having a tough time getting some of the spots off, I'll definitely give Natty a ring.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Thanks for the info. So it wasn't unanimous first-place marks by any means. Who did Finland have in first? A lot of people seem outraged when you suggest that G&P's FD wasn't far and away the best, but obviously four judges didn't think it was. Whether they took any deductions would be interesting to know.
    Finland had U&Z first. U&Z had three 1sts and six 2nds. Had one more judge had them first instead of G&P they would have won. They didnt even need a majority of 1sts.

  16. #476

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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    Finland had U&Z first. U&Z had three 1sts and six 2nds. Had one more judge had them first instead of G&P they would have won. They didnt even need a majority of 1sts.
    So true, and that would have been interesting to see. Interesting that all nine judges thought that U/Z belonged in the top 2 while only six thought G/P deserved to be in the top 2.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by hertmirsh View Post
    Finland had U&Z first. U&Z had three 1sts and six 2nds. Had one more judge had them first instead of G&P they would have won.
    Thanks. Unless it was the British judge.

    They didn't even need a majority of 1sts.
    Even as it was, the TO for G&P was 16, and for U&Z 15; and 4 judges preferred U&Z. That's pretty close.

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    So true, and that would have been interesting to see. Interesting that all nine judges thought that U/Z belonged in the top 2 while only six thought G/P deserved to be in the top 2.
    So why do so many fans assert that it was obvious that G&P were so superior??? Of course, it's possible that the ordinals might have been different without any possible deductions. Then again, who knows if some of the judges even took any?

  19. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    It's definitely debatable in terms of whether she's all there or not. Illegalities are such an issue with so many of her students programs that it's incredible! She's either clueless or didn't care and broke the rules anyways. She got away with it most of the time too except for Denkova & Staviski's 2 extended lifts at the 2006 Olympics.
    She can't have been clueless. It's impossible. But probably she didn't care that much. As you said, she usually got away with it.

  20. #480
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    So why do so many fans assert that it was obvious that G&P were so superior??? Of course, it's possible that the ordinals might have been different without any possible deductions. Then again, who knows if some of the judges even took any?
    Yes, it was very close. And I don't think that actually that many viewers found G&P so superior. Of course some did. But many more probably didn't. But anyway to be sure of that some statistical research should be done

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