Page 2 of 44 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 869
  1. #21

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Walking to Work
    Posts
    25,842
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    32560
    As much as I like Stojko, I found him artless compared to the florid but effective Urmanov. It's a draw - I guess you could have given it to him on the technical score, but other than the jumps, there was no "there" there.

    No one will ever make me believe Oksana outskated anyone that night. Nancy skated a clean program, Oksana didn't. She was sloppy from beginning to end. I've never really cared for Oksana, not really. She does make a great train wreck, however.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    82
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    As much as I like Stojko, I found him artless compared to the florid but effective Urmanov. It's a draw - I guess you could have given it to him on the technical score, but other than the jumps, there was no "there" there
    Stojko had much better spins and footwork than Urmanov too. A local skater can do better spins than Urmanov.

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,152
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    Me too! It was a pretty bad outfit. She's actually very petite in person. While I wasn't her biggest fan, looking at her pre-HFOS professional programs, it's funny how something as simple as a longer hairstyle and a well tailored costume can completely change your bodyline and overall effect on the ice. She actually looked so much more polished and well put together after 1994.
    I was waiting for escaflowne to chime in!

    Sato's programs in 1994 weren't super sophisticated, particularly the short. But neither were Baiul or Kerrigan's free skates.

    Her skating skills (zing!) were as good, if not better, than Baiul's and Kerrigan's (neither of whom were slouches in edging or speed).

    She really blossomed as a pro. And I agree the longer hair and dresses helped her immensely.

    Even here, her hair is short and the costume is boxy, but the bun softens her and the bodice elongates her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hhB0QbQt5g (it's also my favorite program of hers).

    Had Sato not popped the 3z in the short, she could've medaled for sure.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm not a technical expert, so could those who say that Oksana Baiul's win was completely undeserved explain to me why Nancy was better? I seem to recall Oksana did 5 different triple jumps and a triple/double combination. I know Nancy did a triple/triple, so I get why she should have had higher technical marks, but Oksana was almost equal to her on jumps and her artistry was CLEARLY superior by far.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,825
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    37756
    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    I'm not a technical expert, so could those who say that Oksana Baiul's win was completely undeserved explain to me why Nancy was better? I seem to recall Oksana did 5 different triple jumps and a triple/double combination. I know Nancy did a triple/triple, so I get why she should have had higher technical marks, but Oksana was almost equal to her on jumps and her artistry was CLEARLY superior by far.
    Oksana did 4 clean triples (although one was really close to being two-footed but after double-checking I think it was clean) with none of them in combination. She added a double axel/double toe at the very end and that was landed roughly (though she sold it well). Nancy did five triples with a 3/3. Her Triple Lutz after the second half of her LP. Oksana did hers in the beginning. Nancy had a 3/3 and a true spin combination and a footwork section. Oksana didn't have any of those, though she did prance around and I guess that could be counted as footwork. Nancy had a nice transition into her Triple Loop. I don't remember any real transitions into Oksana's jumps.

    Oksana performed her routine better, but Nancy had a real skating routine where she actually skated. I think don't know if there should have been more to the "artistic impression" mark than performance, but I think there should have been. Anyway, I don't think Oksana performing aimlessly to bad renditions of Broadway show tunes with no rhyme and reason should outweigh any of the technical deficiencies she had against Nancy, Lu Chen, and Yuka Sato. Especially Lu Chen who had a complex routine and six triples.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 03-31-2014 at 09:45 PM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Walking to Work
    Posts
    25,842
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    32560
    Come to think of it, Oksana was quite florid herself, but her errors made it look worse. And I guess I never really developed Nancyhate (TM) like a lot of skating fans did, and felt for her.

  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I won't argue with the more knowledgeable figure skating experts, but I'm still very happy Oksana Baiul won I have never seen a more artistic skater and Nancy was insufferable (in my opinion).

    Back to the pairs... I read a recent interview with Artur Dmitriev in which he very graciously said that the right pair won in 1994. The more shocking bit was that it was suggested he should team up with Katia Gordeeva after Mishkutenov announced that she wanted to retire. Thankfully, he refused to even try out with Katia. I absolutely love Artur and he was in my opinion the best male pairs skater of all time, but that would not have been a good match.

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Iirc Nancy also did a 3s/2t so. She had two planned combos, a 3/3 and a 3/2 and 6 planned triples. After she doubled the 3f she stuck to her plan firming up the idea of her being a well prepared professional.

    Iirc Oksana had 5 planned triples and no planned combos. None. Yes, she showed up to win the Olympics with no combo jumps planned. After she doubled a jump, she threw in an improved 3t which threw the whole program a little off. She then threw in an unplanned 2x/2t which was wonky. Clearly half the judges had no problem with her making sit-up on the fly, and being "plucky" is definitely part of her charm, so in this case being amateurish paid off.

  9. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,438
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Iirc Nancy also did a 3s/2t so. She had two planned combos, a 3/3 and a 3/2 and 6 planned triples. After she doubled the 3f she stuck to her plan firming up the idea of her being a well prepared professional.

    Iirc Oksana had 5 planned triples and no planned combos. None. Yes, she showed up to win the Olympics with no combo jumps planned. After she doubled a jump, she threw in an improved 3t which threw the whole program a little off. She then threw in an unplanned 2x/2t which was wonky. Clearly half the judges had no problem with her making sit-up on the fly, and being "plucky" is definitely part of her charm, so in this case being amateurish paid off.
    In addition, Oksana also wrestled the sympathy vote away from Nancy with her practice collision with Tanja Szewczenko earlier that day. Oksana was quite skilled at turning up the theatrics and hysteria so it benefited her.

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,421
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    I have defended Baiul and her ablities on this forum, but I agree that Kerrigan, Sato, and Chen were all better than her in the LP, and her technical marks were unquestionably wrong. Presentation scores are obviously more subjective, there would have been less to complain about if she had atleast won through presentation scores, her strength, but she in fact had equal or higher technical marks than Kerrigan and won 3 of her 5 judges strictly on the technical mark.
    How many times have we been told that under 6.0, there is no such thing as "unquestionably wrong" marks because the individual marks themselves had no absolute meaning. Their only real purpose was as a means for producing ordinals. That, together with the rule about not giving two skaters the same marks, sometimes meant judges had to give one mark higher than they might otherwise have done in order to rank the skaters in the order they felt they deserved. I remember one event where a judge gave some middling skater a mark like 5.9 5.4 that raised some eyebrows. The judge explained that she had already used the numbers she wanted to give and if she just added or subtracted a point, those scores either had also been used or would place the skater behind a second skater the judge felt she beat or ahead of a third skater the judge though she should not beat. So, she came up with this whacky combination in order that this skater would have enough points to place ahead of the second skater but the third skater would get the better ordinal on the presentation tiebreaker.

    I think the three judges who gave Baiul the higher tech mark may have been in a similar predicament. If they had given Baiul the same tech mark as Kerrigan, they would have tied them. They needed either to give an extra .1 on the tech mark or give her 6.0 on the presentation mark.

    The bottom line is that if those five judges thought Baiul should get their first place ordinal, the marks they used to get there don't really matter.
    Last edited by Susan M; 04-01-2014 at 02:16 AM.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    582
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    In addition, Oksana also wrestled the sympathy vote away from Nancy with her practice collision with Tanja Szewczenko earlier that day. Oksana was quite skilled at turning up the theatrics and hysteria so it benefited her.
    94' was like the Sympathy Olympics lbr.

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I am bored with how we poster's too often say "I'm fine with so-and-so's win" from 1,062 years ago as if it could be protested or disputed now if you weren't "fine" with it. The events are not really still debated or debatable. Using the past tense of I was fine with it (if you were a fan alive at that time), or "I agree with his/her winning" would be better.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 04-01-2014 at 07:34 AM.

  13. #33

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,825
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    37756
    I'm fine with Torvill/Dean getting first place in the OD.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,438
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I am bored with how we poster's too often say (snip)
    I'm bored by posters who use unnecessary apostrophes.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Some of us post with iPhones that proffer ungrammatical things...
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 04-01-2014 at 08:24 AM.

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    250
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I was only ok with the Urmanov's gold medal. IMHO neither Oksana nor G/P and G/G should have won gold medals.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I was very upset at the time about Torvil and Dean getting penalized for very interesting lifts. That made the result meaningless. It felt similar when Michelle Kwan got an overtime deduction in 2004 Worlds. Certain skating rules were stupid under 6.0, and that's why I didn't mind when its butt the hit the door on the way out. Judges took idiosyncratic penalties and referees did random things.

  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    As much as I like Stojko, I found him artless compared to the florid but effective Urmanov. It's a draw - I guess you could have given it to him on the technical score, but other than the jumps, there was no "there" there.

    No one will ever make me believe Oksana outskated anyone that night. Nancy skated a clean program, Oksana didn't. She was sloppy from beginning to end. I've never really cared for Oksana, not really. She does make a great train wreck, however.
    I am fine with Oksana having bigger hair than Nancy.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    250
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    And G/P weren't penalised for too long moments of dancing without holding hands.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    And G/P weren't penalised for too long moments of dancing without holding hands.
    Yeah, my general view is that ice dancing was a fraud under 6.0. Up to and including the win by Bourne & Kraatz in 2003 the results seemed to be totally fixed before every event. The judges had a scheme and an alibi to insure Lillehammer went to G/P.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 04-01-2014 at 09:32 AM.

Page 2 of 44 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •