Page 13 of 44 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 869
  1. #241
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    745
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by butyrskafanatic View Post
    Arent Pasha, Sasha, Platov, and Maya all good friends now. Or atleast on speaking terms. I know Platov has coached with both Usova and Sasha different periods. Platov mentions getting back on the ice with Pasha for exhibitions a few times.
    In a sense yes but I don't believe Sasha and Maya are on talking terms. I could be wrong though. I do know that Grishuk, Usova, and Platov are all on relatively good terms with one another now (since about 2005 I believe).

  2. #242
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    166
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    That sounds good enough. Sasha is the pig and the rest should avoid him at all costs. He has only brought turmoil into everyones life.

    If I was Maya I would never speak to him again either. Cheating on me while married is bad enough, but cheating on the one he is cheating on you with, shows he considered you and the marriage to be a total joke, just a hidden title on the side to keep secret.

  3. #243
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Platov and Maya have always been friends and have definitely coached together (maybe still do?). Platov said about his relationship with Zhulin that it was amicable, but not friendly. In 2006, Platov was reunited with Grishuk on the Russian dancing on ice show and G&P skated together for exhibitions between 2006-08 . But he was once asked if he would ever consider coaching with Grishuk and he responded "No, one has to be good friends in order to coach together". In 2006, Grishuk was still publicly blaming Platov for their split and telling the Russian press how he didn't share his prize money (for Nagano) with her. Usova was still talking about how Grishuk broke up her marriage.

    However, it may well be that they have all made up now

  4. #244
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,429
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    Thank you. But I still don't understand why all the talk about illegal moves, if there were not rules.
    Sorry, I misunderstood. There were no rules for the judges about scoring and how much to to value or reward one thing or another. Like today, there were rules about what dances could include, including limits on separations and things like overhead lifts. A lot of folks were annoyed they did not see a specific deduction taken for the overlong separation in G&P's free dance, but honestly, in the days of ordinals, niggling over points really misses the big picture. The judges who thought they should be first were going to put them first, whatever numbers they used to get them there.

  5. #245
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    There's one near you!!! :)
    Posts
    3,952
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    A lot of folks were annoyed they did not see a specific deduction taken for the overlong separation in G&P's free dance, but honestly, in the days of ordinals, niggling over points really misses the big picture. The judges who thought they should be first were going to put them first, whatever numbers they used to get them there.
    But were there supposed to be specific deductions for overlong separations or not?

    If so, then "putting in first who you thought should be first" could be considered ignoring the rules. That would be like a judge saying, "Who cares about required elements and/or mandatory deductions in the SP? I'm just going to rank the skaters the way I want to." Would that be considered good judging?

    If a judge thought that, even after any required deductions, G&P still deserved first because they were so far ahead of everyone else, then fine. But if the judge thought that the couples were close, then I don't see how glossing over any possible deductions would be considered okay. Or were the deductions in question completely optional?

  6. #246
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    166
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I guess that is the strongest case for U&Z deserving 1st with their slow, boring, and awful FD. They atleast broke no rules and since it appears the judges deducted for T&D's last back flip atleast .1, they should have also deducted for G&P's seperations, which would have dropped them to 3rd (despite that they were my favorite skate that night). That was probably what annoyed not only some U&Z supporters, but many T&D fans, as they felt T&D took the hit for breaking a rule but then saw G&P did not.

  7. #247

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,467
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    The judges who thought they should be first were going to put them first, whatever numbers they used to get them there.
    Yup.

    I forget -- and it's almost impossible to find this information online now that 6.0 rules are never used for free dances -- was the deduction for too-long separation (or for illegal elements, such as T&D's lift with man's hands above head) 0.1 from each mark or 0.2 from the technical mark?

    Some of their scores do not reflect the appropriate deductions, especially 5.9 and 6.0 from the Russian judge.

    G&P skated last. U&Zh and T&D had already received very high marks.

    In most cases, if a skater/team with a deduction is really that much better than the next-best contender, in a given judge's honest opinion, that they deserve to place higher even with the deduction, they can just set the base mark high enough that the total is still enough for first place after the deduction.

    Only if the scores for the other contenders are already at 5.8 and 5.9, there isn't room to reflect the deduction and reflect the judges' honest ranking of the skaters/teams. So one way or another they have to violate the rules -- either don't take the full deduction, or don't rank the teams in the order you believe they deserve to be ranked.

    Of course we weren't inside the judges' heads, we don't know their thought processes, whether there were any dishonest considerations as well, or honest mistakes of not timing the separations (did the referee inform the judges?).

    But if a judge honestly thought that G&P were that much better and didn't have room in the marks to show the deductions, what should they have done?

  8. #248
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    207
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by butyrskafanatic View Post
    Also T&D have the worst fan base in the world. I cant believing looking at youtube some of the non stop whining that still goes on 20 years later. I can see someone thinking they deserved to win, but you get the impression their fans and the deluded British public thought the Olympics were meant as a coronation for them, not an actual competition. That everyone else should have just been honored to be in the presence of their royalty or something. They even make Michelle Kwan fans look humble.

    The T&D fans even think they deserved 1st place in a dance like the Starlight Waltz at the Games where everyone else can see they were lucky and a bit gifted to even be 3rd in that particular dance. They have no objectivity or credability at all.
    I once admired them (and I still do admire their unmatched harmony as a skating couple), until I came to watch the '94 olys. It wasn't so very much the competition itself and their behaviour after being placed third, but the interviews and their confessions about why they had returned and how they think of themselves that made me question my fandom. They finally lost me as a fan with their autobio. This book seems to be the bible of the die-hard T/D-fans, but reading with a little emotional distance to the authors, you soon realize that there are too many justifications, too much it's-always-someone-elses-fault-when-we-fail, too much we-are-the-greatest. Developing a stable self-confidence is appropriate, if not neccessary, when you are in the skating business, but they seemed to think that the workd was rotating around them, with a large fanbase to support that point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Haha! Absolutely. It's not just the fans though, I'm sure if you asked Chris Dean about 1994 today he would give you a little lecture on how they were victims of corruption and politics behind figure skating. I'm surprised their heads fit inside the ice rink in 1994.

    To be fair, all the competitors were nervous about T&D's return because of their legendary status and expected them to win. T&D were idols even for the Russian ice dance teams. Evgeni Platov said that everyone was shaken by T&D's presence and no one thought they could be beaten - until they saw how slow they were in the compulsories.
    As someone on here recently stated: it's difficult not to become a little big headed after a win like theirs in Sarajevo. What annoys me though is that they've always claimed to be so humble, so modest, so shy. It was the image they had become famous with, and it must have been hard to maintain that impression.

  9. #249
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    79
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Humble and modest is the last words that should be ever associated with T&D. Greatness, innovation, one of the best dance teams ever and arguably the best, maker of many iconic programs, record holder of all the perfect 6.0 records, Olympic and World Champions yes. Humble, modest, no. I cant believe they would have ever potrayed themselves as such.

  10. #250
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    There's one near you!!! :)
    Posts
    3,952
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Shyjosie View Post
    What annoys me though is that they've always claimed to be so humble, so modest
    Do truly humble and modest people normally claim those traits?

    Reminds me of a piece by Jonathan Edwards that we read in English Lit way back in college. In it, he said something like, "I will not be content to be humble. I must be the humblest...." Our professor pointed out to us the inherent contradiction there right away.

  11. #251
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    745
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Wow, were T&D that bad when it came to their ego? I know very little about them and have always admired their skating. But even if all of this is true, it doesn't detract from their abilities as skaters. Just like Oksana Grishuk's crazy days as Pasha shouldn't detract from her abilities as an ice dancer.

  12. #252
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    There's one near you!!! :)
    Posts
    3,952
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    But even if all of this is true, it doesn't detract from their abilities as skaters. Just like Oksana Grishuk's crazy days as Pasha shouldn't detract from her abilities as an ice dancer.
    Of course not. But it may make it more difficult to appreciate their art. Of course, it seems to me that the "diva mentality" is very common among those considered to be the best in a particular field, so I've pretty much come to expect it. In general, if you're looking for modesty and humility, don't go looking for it too hard in those who excel in competitive sports. I think ultra-competitiveness and modesty don't go real well together in general, even though some are pretty good at faking it.

  13. #253
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    There's one near you!!! :)
    Posts
    3,952
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Taso View Post
    Oooooooohhhh....a systemic Gestalt therapy group with the ladies of Lillehammer . The days of the "Fritz Perls & Gloria" video are over
    Really??? Is that why when Laura Branigan tried calling her a few years back, she just never answered??

  14. #254
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    207
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by angelflies View Post
    Humble and modest is the last words that should be ever associated with T&D. Greatness, innovation, one of the best dance teams ever and arguably the best, maker of many iconic programs, record holder of all the perfect 6.0 records, Olympic and World Champions yes. Humble, modest, no. I cant believe they would have ever potrayed themselves as such.
    I don't want to do them injustice so, sorry, I must correct myself: of course, they never said word by word "we are so modest" or the like. But they were portrayed like that when their career began and subsequently, they made it part if their image to appear like the most-down-to-earth people in skating, maintaining that the fame never got to their heads.
    I agree with everything you say here. As their incredible uniqueness and perfect sixes were what I used to think of when they got mentioned (and were what I wanted to remember them for) I found it quite odd that they went and challenged all that in '94.

  15. #255

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    being a grumpy penguin
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,909
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5587
    Well, this thread has been quite informative. I've learned that:

    T&D claimed to be humble.

    There's a chain of discount haircutters located north of the Tri-State area, known as Fantastic Sams, that's akin to the Lemon Tree and Supercuts.

    Nancy Kerrigan actually complained to a man, who made his living dressing up as a cartoon mouse and appearing in children's parades, that she had to do something corny for one day (for which she was paid 2 million dollars ),and she seriously expected sympathy .
    Last edited by escaflowne9282; 04-15-2014 at 02:34 PM.

  16. #256

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,851
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    39967
    To be fair, it was corny.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  17. #257
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    There's one near you!!! :)
    Posts
    3,952
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    Well, this thread has been quite informative.
    With threads like this, who needs PBS???

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    To be fair, it was corny.
    Well, when life throws you corn, make cornbread.

  18. #258
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Well, when life throws you corn, make cornbread.
    Or make popcorn!

  19. #259

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    being a grumpy penguin
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,909
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5587
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Or make popcorn!
    Or just suck it up for 2 million dollars!

    but yeah, it was corny.

  20. #260
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    Nancy Kerrigan actually complained to a man, who made his living dressed up as a cartoon mouse and appeared in children's parades, that she had to do something corny for one day (for which she was paid 2 million dollars ),and she seriously expected sympathy .


    After being nearly crippled by a competitor that got away with it, this was just one of the perks. All she had to do was sit in a car and smile and then collect $2mil. But this is Nancy Kerrigan, so of course she found a way to somehow f it up. The backlash was so bad, people are still bringing it up 2 decades later.

    None of it had absolutely anything at all to do with whining to underpaid staff or fishing for sympathy.

Page 13 of 44 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •