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  1. #341
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    I don't remember exactly what Wilson had to say.
    There is a link a few pages back.

  2. #342
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    BTW If anybody asks why U/Z or T/D still moan about the Lillehammer results, I would like to notice that it was neither U/Z fan nor T/D fan who started this thread. It was G/P fan who wanted to bring back the controversy again.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    BTW If anybody asks why U/Z or T/D still moan about the Lillehammer results, I would like to notice that it was neither U/Z fan nor T/D fan who started this thread. It was G/P fan who wanted to bring back the controversy again.
    First of all, i started this thread to discuss ALL the figure skating results in Lillehammer, not just G&P's win and I actually started it after re-watching G&G's and M&D's performances in pairs (as I mention in my first post). I have absolutely no problem with T&D's or U&Z's fans, but with Chris Dean himself being a sore loser and starting a campaign against G&P. Chris along with Tracey Wilson created the impression that G&P were robbing more talented teams of their medals, which was very far from the truth.

  4. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    But Xela M, you also keep repeating that G/P were so superiour. If it were so obvious, there weren't be so much talking even 20 years after Lillehammer. So you have the right to think so, but you should realise that other people have the right to think otherwise and it doesn't mean they are less right than you are. You keep repeating that T/D and their fans wanted gold for T/D just because they were legends. Do you really believe that that was the reason why so many people were disappointed with the result? Don’t you think that maybe people really found their performance better than G/P's? Do you really think that FS fans want their favourites to achieve medals just for their past achievements and not for what they show on the ice?
    THIS. While I agree G/P were definitely talented, I don't believe they should have won that year (I was torn between U/Z and T/D, slightly in favor of U/Z) because that rock n' roll number was a speedskate with tricks, not an ice dance. And I will admit my "less than love" for this team has nothing to do with Evgeny. Pasha is my least favorite skater personality-wise of all time because of her unfettered narcissism. That woman was so in love with herself I'm surprised she didn't insist on carrying a mirror onto the ice so she could blow herself kisses while she danced. I did love "Libertango," but her selfish attitude just carried onto the ice for me and ruined the skating. While the "woman is the pretty picture, and the man is the frame" in ice dancing, you should be able to focus on both skaters. With Pasha, it was always about her, Evgeny was just along for the wild ride.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  5. #345
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    Whilst I agree that Pasha was an acquired taste personality-wise, she was an absolutely incredible ice dancer. Evgeny (and the media) always portrayed him as being this poor angel who was being dragged along kicking and screaming by the evil selfish speed-addict Pasha Grishuk. Whereas Evgeny was very competitive himself and loved it. He didn't dump Grishuk before they won everything there was to be won in amateur sport because he knew he couldn't win without her. Otherwise he could have stayed with Dubova and skated with Navka or with Usova when her and Zhulin couldn't stand each other anymore. Grishuk was unique, just like Chris Dean was unique. Both were extremely selfish, competitive and narcissistic, but amazing ice dancers.

    P.S. It's not like Chris was a "frame" to Jayne. On the ice he demanded to be seen more than her.

  6. #346
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    All geniuses are a bit crazy and narcissistic. That is why Pasha and Dean are, and moreso than their partners who while great skaters are not true geniuses and stars in the same way. That is also why Scott Moir and Patrick Chan are both a bit of an ass. Anyone remember John Curry and Toller Cranston, now they take the cake, lol! The rest arent since while they might be great, they still arent true genuises.

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    I think we should distinguish Tracy Wilson's subjective statements from those objective ones. When she says "they never touched the audience" or "they don't understand the music" well, etc. is not the same as when she talks about the rules.
    Yes, we should distinguish between subjective and objective. However when the crowd is roaring in the background as they were after the 1997 worlds OD is plain stupid to shout out "they never touched the audience" so you can be heard about the roars in the back.

    There can be no question Tracy Wilson was heavily biased to G&P. She never once just said flat out they are the best team. Not even in 1995 and 1996 when there was literally no team to even challenge them, she still tried to say teams like Rahkammo & Kokko and a still developing Krylova & Ovsiannikov were as good or better.

  8. #348
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    She never once just said flat out they are the best team. Not even in 1995 and 1996 when there was literally no team to even challenge them, she still tried to say teams like Rahkammo & Kokko and a still developing Krylova & Ovsiannikov were as good or better.
    Have you got any links to her commentaries from 1995 and 1996 World or European Championships? I was trying to find any on YT, but in vain. There some clips with commentaries of Dick Button or Sandra Bezic. Did Wilson even commentate those events? I would really like to hear her comments.
    Last edited by coraczek; 04-18-2014 at 05:39 PM.

  9. #349
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    Although she hasn't managed to win Olympic Gold (yet) to me Aliona Savchenko is a similar character to Pasha Grishuk. She is selfish and narcissistic and she looks like she would sell her own mother down the river to win an OGM. Victory at all costs! Robin just came along for the ride. I admire fanatics like them. Figure skating would be dull without such stand out characters.

  10. #350
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    Pasha is a horrible women and a talentless ice dancer who won all her medals through politics. Tracy Wilson was just speaking the truth and y'all should accept that. Her Olympic gold was a farce. She robbed Maya of her husband, then her olympic gold. She should be put in jail for treason.

  11. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Although she hasn't managed to win Olympic Gold (yet) to me Aliona Savchenko is a similar character to Pasha Grishuk. She is selfish and narcissistic and she looks like she would sell her own mother down the river to win an OGM. Victory at all costs! Robin just came along for the ride. I admire fanatics like them. Figure skating would be dull without such stand out characters.
    I can actually see at least some of that in Aliona.

    My fevered imagination just pictured Christopher Dean trying to skate with Pasha. There would be a tornado on the ice...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    My fevered imagination just pictured Christopher Dean trying to skate with Pasha. There would be a tornado on the ice...
    Haha! I would love to be there for their training sessions There would be blood on the ice.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    ...My fevered imagination just pictured Christopher Dean trying to skate with Pasha. There would be a tornado on the ice...
    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Haha! I would love to be there for their training sessions There would be blood on the ice.
    It came to my mind, too.
    I wonder who of them would be the survivor...?

  14. #354
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    Pasha is a deluded quack who thought she was Marilyn Monroe and Madonna. Marilyn Monroe is a star, one of a kind, Pasha could never be her as much as she dreams to be. Madonna would be furious at this poser who was trying to imitate her. Madonna is a classy women who even screwed a bull once. Pasha could never be here.

  15. #355

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripingroar37 View Post
    Madonna would be furious at this poser who was trying to imitate her. Madonna is a classy women who even screwed a bull once. .
    Dude, what?
    "Liking this sport is ridiculous, so you’re a little different for liking it, she explained. But you’re allowed to like what you like." - Robert Samuels

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripingroar37 View Post
    Pasha is a deluded quack... Madonna is a classy women who even screwed a bull once. Pasha could never be here.
    Of course Pasha is the quack...

  17. #357

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    I think ripingroar37 is referring to the time where Madonna dated Dennis Rodman who was a Chicago Bulls basketball player.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  18. #358

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think ripingroar37 is referring to the time where Madonna dated Dennis Rodman who was a Chicago Bulls basketball player.
    God, I hope so...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    I think we should distinguish Tracy Wilson's subjective statements from those objective ones. When she says "they never touched the audience" or "they don't understand the music" well, etc. is not the same as when she talks about the rules.
    Good point, but we still don't know for sure yet if her comments were accurate.

    But if athlete/team truly deserves a second OGM, it’s never ok if they didn’t get it because of unfair judging.
    Certainly. I'm just talking about contests that many would consider "close." I definitely wouldn't want to see outrageous judging just so that an athlete/team wouldn't get a second OGM.

    Probably it would have been even more difficult for them in 1996 than in 1994. Not only because G/P were better, but also taking into account the strained relationship between Usova and Zhulin.
    I agree that G&P were better technically, but definitely not artistically. In fact, I think G&P were the Mariah Careys of the dance world--a lot of technical ability, but not much else. I love this description of Mariah Carey that a British reviewer once gave, and I think it fits G&P as well:

    [Carey] has a fine technical voice but the emotional resonance of a car park.

    As someone has already mentioned in this thread that probably even already in 1994 they didn’t train as much as they should have.
    So they slacked off??? Why was that?

  20. #360
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    I love this description of Mariah Carey that a British reviewer once gave, and I think it fits G&P as well:

    [Carey] has a fine technical voice but the emotional resonance of a car park.
    I love it

    So they slacked off??? Why was that?
    I only heard that they couldn't stand each other, so spent as much time as they thought it was necessary minimum, not more. But I don't know if is true, maybe just some gossips.
    Last edited by coraczek; 04-18-2014 at 10:38 PM.

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