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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    I DID kinda have the feeling that went out the window with his idiotic fall in the FS here
    He fell because Popova cut him under.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debrah View Post
    I don't see how they could compete for France if they want to go to next Oly games, as she has already legally changed countries so I would think that takes France off the table for her, on the other hand, if they don't go for 2018 Oly then it doesn't matter and they could skate for France...
    If she manages to get French citizenship in time, she can compete for France. It's as simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    Robin is supposed to be getting married any time now, and maybe fiance just wanted to help along his retirement by outing Massot so he can't return to Popova...
    If my fiance just wanted to "help" me to stick to a commitment by hurting someone else, fight or no fight, I'd have serious misgivings about my fiance.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissJD View Post
    Or maybe the wedding is why he cancelled those shows. There could be a million reasons, but I don't think it's any kind of payback on Aliona for "dumping" him.
    I don't know why he did it, but if my partner had made a substantial financial business commitment knowing he had a wedding planned, and then he reneged without me changing the terms, I'd be plenty angry.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debrah View Post
    I don't see how they could compete for France if they want to go to next Oly games, as she has already legally changed countries so I would think that takes France off the table for her, on the other hand, if they don't go for 2018 Oly then it doesn't matter and they could skate for France...
    My friend has three different citizenships (which she got through marriages). If she can have three why couldn't Aliona have three? I don't think it is impossible.

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    This will work out miserably for Massot. Savchenko will dump him quickly, his former partner Popova will represent France at the Olympics with a new partner, and he will be left alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debrah View Post
    I don't see how they could compete for France if they want to go to next Oly games, as she has already legally changed countries so I would think that takes France off the table for her, on the other hand, if they don't go for 2018 Oly then it doesn't matter and they could skate for France...
    Vanessa James already had a couple of passports when she applied for French citizenship, and it didn't hurt her.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post
    You're right! that was not a good comment, it's changed in my post.

    Let me use different terms. If an athlete in professional sports changes countries, or performs in shows over-seas, that's understandable - it's work for personal benefit. Or, people may have to move/emigrate due to political or environmental force majeure, and have little choice but to move abroad. But in amateur sport one represents A COUNTRY/A FLAG.

    That should mean something, that one is part of that culture, society, music, art, dance; that one is a "product" of the "specifics of the area represented by the flag that is being raised". Otherwise WHY raise the flag???!!!

    She is Ukrainian, skated for Ukraine. Ukraine - no opportunities, so she moved and skated for Germany (not so strange, Ukrainians admiration for Germans, etc.). Few years go buy she is "germanaized"..... does well, earns top medals UNDER GERMAN FLAG, which is a MAJOR issue and event - the hymn and flag - the National Pride of the athletes, and proud singing of the country's HYMN!

    Now it is "off to France"..... which means now she is aiming to stand under a new National Flag and sing YET ANOTHER PATRIOTIC HYMN of this new country SHE HAS NO LINK TO until tomorrow?
    I don't think Russia minded that Ahn and Wild decided to switch countries An athlete represents himself and will do whatever is best for him.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am not sure if her original citizenship was Russian or Ukrainian. If she has Russian citizenship, it seems that it would be easier to skate for Russia with the potential Russian partner (from the citizenship point of view),
    She was born in Ukraine when it was part of the former Soviet Union, and my understanding was it was easy for someone who was born in the FSU to get Russian citizenship, like Volosozhar. It may be complicated by the fact that she took German citizenship in between and may have had to renounce her Ukranian citizenship, but in any case, I've never heard of any Olympic athlete having trouble obtaining Russian citizenship, even from Asian or NA countries.

    Besides, if she decided to skate for Russia with that Russian partner, she would have no guarantee that they would even qualify for the Olympics. In four years time the competition among Russian pairs will be insane.
    I feel the same as I did with Mukhortova a few years ago. I totally understood her wanting to skate for Russia, and not France, with Blanchard. If the goal is simply to win an Olympic gold medal, then she's better off skating for Russia. She has to beat the same teams from Russian Nationals at the Olympics. If she can't medal at Russian nationals then her pair is not OGM caliber anyway. Russia will fight hard to stay at the top... K&S started beating S&S before 2010 (Euros) and then V&T started beating them before 2014. I can totally picture the same thing happening to her this time. Look at V&T having a 5 point lead after the SP, making it virtually impossible for S&S to win without V&T making mistakes.

    Now that said, she can still have a great career representing Germany or France. She could win Worlds with two different partners for two different countries (if France), continue her streak of medalling at every Worlds since 2007, be the first to win Worlds with three different partners (counting Junior Worlds, with Morozov), win an Olympic medal with a different country/partner, compete in a 5th Olympics... lots of good stuff, but becoming Olympic champion would be very difficult.

    I hope I'm not getting this backwards, and, of course, the entire story wasn't released, but didn't Kraatz convince Bourne to stay eligible to compete for the 2003 WC instead of going pro after SLC? Then he refused to go pro after they won 2003 WC's. I would be livid if someone pulled that bait-and-switch,
    I don't consider that a bait and switch. She got a world title out of it, and there's no guarantee he would have stayed in pros longer than a year.

    I also recall it was Mishkutenok who wanted to continue skating eligibly after 1992, but he wanted to retire. They came out of retirement in 1994, but then it was he who wanted to continue and she wanted to retire, so they had no real pro career.

  8. #68
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    Aljona Savchenko und Robin Szolkowy gehen im Streit auseinander

    "Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkovy part on bad terms"

    According to this article, it's Robin who doesn't want to do shows now. The main thrust of the article is that the entire partnership has ended in "anger and reproaches."

    Robin is supposedly so upset that he is saying he won't do the "lucrative shows in Japan." Aliona told the dpa press agency, "I'm flabbergasted. We could pocket $45,000 in three days. If Robin isn't interested, that's on him."

    The article also goes on to talk about how Ingo knows Bruno because Bruno and Daria trained with him in Chemnitz for a year. The most shocking part, I thought:

    Savchenko and coach Ingo Steuer blame Szolkovy for not sticking to their agreement to keep mum about their future plans until late April. Szolkovy's girlfriend apparently spilled the beans about Savchenko's new partnership to Massot's current teammate, Daria Popova. "It's really a shame, we were like family. But that's just plain nasty," Savchenko said. Meanwhile, she herself was the one who started the rumors in Sochi.

    I can translate the whole article, if anyone is interested.
    Last edited by Messalina; 03-30-2014 at 09:58 PM.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post

    I don't consider that a bait and switch. She got a world title out of it, and there's no guarantee he would have stayed in pros longer than a year.
    You don't consider, "I'll stay in for one more year for you, and then we'll go pro," to "Now I have what's most important to me, I'm not going pro," a bait-and-switch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    She was born in Ukraine when it was part of the former Soviet Union, and my understanding was it was easy for someone who was born in the FSU to get Russian citizenship, like Volosozhar.
    At the time, the explanation for Volosozhar getting Russian citizenship so quickly was that she was of Russian descent. It wouldn't matter if it took a while for Savchenko to get Russian citizenship, if her partner is Russian, since the ISU doesn't require it.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Messalina View Post
    Aljona Savchenko und Robin Szolkowy gehen im Streit auseinander

    "Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkovy part on bad terms"
    Is this the same (or similar) article as posted earlier in the thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by la.louise View Post
    More news: http://www.fr-online.de/sport/savche...,asTicker.html

    - There has been some drama behind the scenes, Robin and Aliona were invited to do some shows in Japan, but Robin declined. He wants to go home with his girlfriend. Aliona doesn’t understand Robin. They could earn 45000 dollar in 3 days. But Robin has enough of all the backstage drama.

    -Aliona and Ingo wanted to announce the new partnership at the end of April (I guess after the Imagine on ice show, Aliona and Robin’s own show in Chemnitz ). But Robin’s girlfriend apparently told Daria Popova the news and Aliona and Ingo now blame Robin for not keeping his mouth shut. Robin doesn’t agree, but he doesn’t want to say anything, because that can only make things worse.

    - Aliona has other options, if things with Massot won’t work out. She has offers from different russian men.

    - Steuer wants to start an international team in Chemnitz, which might include Florent Amodio.

    I really hope Aliona and Robin can work things out
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    If the goal is simply to win an Olympic gold medal, then she's better off skating for Russia. She has to beat the same teams from Russian Nationals at the Olympics. If she can't medal at Russian nationals then her pair is not OGM caliber anyway. Russia will fight hard to stay at the top... K&S started beating S&S before 2010 (Euros) and then V&T started beating them before 2014. I can totally picture the same thing happening to her this time. Look at V&T having a 5 point lead after the SP, making it virtually impossible for S&S to win without V&T making mistakes.
    Imagine that in a few years time Savchenko+ partner are at the same level as let's say Stolbova-Klimov and Volosozhar-Trankov. There are times when the skaters completely max on the difficulty and then it just depends on who deliver on that particular day. If by any chance you had two or three teams competing on the exactly same level and every time someone else could come on top, not representing Russia would mean that Savchenko+partner could skip nationals and not risk going to Europeans/Olympics as Russian number 2 or even number 3. Additionally, they would have more time to prepare for Europeans/Olympics by not having to compete at the nationals. I know what you mean by "She has to beat the same teams from Russian Nationals at the Olympics", but Olympics is a new competition. You may be lucky once but why hoping to be lucky twice? Stolbova-Klimov beat Savchenko-Szolkowy at the Olympics but I don't think they would also managed to beat them at Russian nationals is S/S competed there. S/K did not managed to beat S/S at the worlds a month later.

    If she can't medal at Russian nationals then her pair is not OGM caliber anyway. - Tarasova-Morozov had an awful free skate at senior nationals and dropped from 3rd place after SP to 8th place overall (out of 10 pairs). They then managed to place 2nd at junior world championships, beating the other two Russian junior pairs that beat them in the senior nationals. They also placed 1st at Russian junior nationals, beating all junior pairs that beat them in senior nationals. You never know what disaster you can have in one competition. That one competition from the whole season may be unfortunately the one that decides who is going to Olympics.
    Last edited by hanca; 03-30-2014 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    You don't consider, "I'll stay in for one more year for you, and then we'll go pro," to "Now I have what's most important to me, I'm not going pro," a bait-and-switch?
    I wasn't aware that he specifically conditioned it as if you stay another year, then we'll go pro. I think he had a preference to skate in competition, and continued with her under those terms, and then didn't want to continue under different terms.

    I guess I should have said not necessarily a bait and switch. It's like marriage. If you go into the marriage knowing you never intend to have kids but say you do to induce marriage, that could be considered fraud and grounds for annulment, but if you honestly intended to have kids and then changed your mind after marriage, it's not... either way, the partner that wants kids is getting a raw deal.

  13. #73
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    Is this the same article as posted earlier?
    Totally! I just skimmed the thread but somehow missed that the article had already been referenced.

    I thought it was interesting that some Russian pairs skaters have also been putting feelers out to Aliona (whom Ingo calls "the best female pairs skater in the world"), in case the thing with Bruno falls through. I wonder who?
    Last edited by Messalina; 03-30-2014 at 10:50 PM.
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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post


    Please translate PSOTY for the non mother tongues
    Porny Skater of the Year. Just one of many venerable and highly respected competitions that takes place at FSU.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

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    Cherub
    I feel the same as I did with Mukhortova a few years ago. I totally understood her wanting to skate for Russia, and not France, with Blanchard. If the goal is simply to win an Olympic gold medal, then she's better off skating for Russia. She has to beat the same teams from Russian Nationals at the Olympics. If she can't medal at Russian nationals then her pair is not OGM caliber anyway. Russia will fight hard to stay at the top... K&S started beating S&S before 2010 (Euros) and then V&T started beating them before 2014. I can totally picture the same thing happening to her this time. Look at V&T having a 5 point lead after the SP, making it virtually impossible for S&S to win without V&T making mistakes.

    Now that said, she can still have a great career representing Germany or France. She could win Worlds with two different partners for two different countries (if France), continue her streak of medalling at every Worlds since 2007, be the first to win Worlds with three different partners (counting Junior Worlds, with Morozov), win an Olympic medal with a different country/partner, compete in a 5th Olympics... lots of good stuff, but becoming Olympic champion would be very difficult.

    So what you´re saying is: the other countries are good enough to win at Euros and Worlds, but not at the Olympics because they are not Russian?
    As for S/S versus V/T: don´t you think that this has something to do with the Russian pair (as indeed ever other gold pair from whatsoever country) has a whole team to do everything necessary to prepare them, and Ingo has pretty much done "a one man show" to prepare them? It´s not like this is the usual approach in Germany....

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    Porny Skater of the Year. Just one of many venerable and highly respected competitions that takes place at FSU.
    Thank you !! I´m getting all lost in all these shortcuts

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    As for S/S versus V/T: don´t you think that this has something to do with the Russian pair (as indeed ever other gold pair from whatsoever country) has a whole team to do everything necessary to prepare them, and Ingo has pretty much done "a one man show" to prepare them? It´s not like this is the usual approach in Germany....
    And yet still, S/S would show up with the most creative and difficult programs most of the time, IMO, despite it being a one-man-show.

    Steuer openly talked about all of the lobbying going on behind the scenes and how the German Federation has nowhere near as much power in that regard (and doesn't even seem to be trying).

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messalina View Post
    Aljona Savchenko und Robin Szolkowy gehen im Streit auseinander

    "Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkovy part on bad terms"

    According to this article, it's Robin who doesn't want to do shows now. The main thrust of the article is that the entire partnership has ended in "anger and reproaches."

    Robin is supposedly so upset that he is saying he won't do the "lucrative shows in Japan." Aliona told the dpa press agency, "I'm flabbergasted. We could pocket $45,000 in three days. If Robin isn't interested, that's on him."

    The article also goes on to talk about how Ingo knows Bruno because Bruno and Daria trained with him in Chemnitz for a year. The most shocking part, I thought:

    Savchenko and coach Ingo Steuer blame Szolkovy for not sticking to their agreement to keep mum about their future plans until late April. Szolkovy's girlfriend apparently spilled the beans about Savchenko's new partnership to Massot's current teammate, Daria Popova. "It's really a shame, we were like family. But that's just plain nasty," Savchenko said. Meanwhile, she herself was the one who started the rumors in Sochi.

    I can translate the whole article, if anyone is interested.
    Thank you for that! If you don't mind, I'd love to read the rest!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    And yet still, S/S would show up with the most creative and difficult programs most of the time, IMO, despite it being a one-man-show.

    Steuer openly talked about all of the lobbying going on behind the scenes and how the German Federation has nowhere near as much power in that regard (and doesn't even seem to be trying).
    Exactly, and that´s pretty much what I try to say. I don´t know about these lobbying which goes up behind the scene, but I´m absolutely against it for any country (no matter which one it is) is going to have a supremacy just by appearance at competition. That will simply be boring for the audience.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    So what you´re saying is: the other countries are good enough to win at Euros and Worlds, but not at the Olympics because they are not Russian?
    I think it's a political thing. Pairs OGM is the crown jewel of Russian skating and Russia is a powerful federation. China is probably the only other country that would put in the same amount of resources (financial, political, and otherwise) so her chances would greatly improve representing China or Russia. S&S were very undermarked in 2012, especially with Pina. I don't think V&T's wins were undeserved... it so happened that every time they beat S&S, V&T did outskate them and S&S also were able to beat them when they outskated them (GPF this year)... but politically a clean V&T had a huge advantage over S&S which I didn't think was right (I don't think both teams ever went clean at the same time though). I think it was a confidence booster for V&T to know that as long as they skated clean they would be 99% likely to win. Savchenko would always be the underdog if skating for Germany or France.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    And yet still, S/S would show up with the most creative and difficult programs most of the time, IMO, despite it being a one-man-show.

    Steuer openly talked about all of the lobbying going on behind the scenes and how the German Federation has nowhere near as much power in that regard (and doesn't even seem to be trying).
    Yes, that's along the lines of what I mean.

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