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  1. #41

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    There may be things we don't know about. For example, both of them may have agreed in advance to do the shows to earn some money, but he may have been feeling hurt that she was able to replace his so soon, so he may have decided to change his mind. And she may be angry because she knows she needs the money because Ingo is not paid by the Federation... The relationships are complicated if a couple have been working together for such a long time. It is a working relationship, but at the same time the length of the working relationship may have crossed the boundaries more towards a friend rather than a colleague, so it can be upsetting that the friend suddenly does not want to help you. But the friend may have mixed feelings, hurt etc.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by fan View Post
    Wouldn't skating in shows with robin come down to a matter of safety for Alina? If she's serious about training with massot, they'll need to work on timing of lifts, throws etc. to revert back to the timing she has with robin could potentially throw her off?
    If she is going to work with Massot, at least one of them should change the federation. They have to sit out a year anyway, according to the ISU rules. This gives her enough time to do shows with Szolkowy for the time being.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabm7 View Post
    If she is going to work with Massot, at least one of them should change the federation. They have to sit out a year anyway, according to the ISU rules. This gives her enough time to do shows with Szolkowy for the time being.
    I don't think it would be as easy as that. Getting used to a new partner, which means new timing on side-by-side jumps, new timing on throw jumps, different way (different timing) to do twists, learning new spins etc, I don't think Aliona will have time to spend with Robin on shows. I think in the next year she will be pretty busy, catching up on skills everyone in her field already has because they have been skating with the same partner. Swapping a partner affects nearly every element, so they will have to re-learn those together. And the last thing she needs is to skate one moment with a partner with the 'old' timing and another day with a partner with the 'new' timing. That would be extremely confusing. This is about the muscle memory, so she will have to learn the new timings without reverting to her old timings. Besides, as the 'better' and more experienced partner, it will be Aliona who will probably do the changes, not Massot, She will be adjusting her timings to his timings, because the better skater is in theory more capable to cope with changes. I remember reading an interview with Volosozhar-Trankov saying how hard it was for them to learn the twist and the throw jumps, because each of them had different timings. One of them had the Moscow school timing and the other had the St Petersburg school.

  4. #44
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    It's sad to hear that they're not getting along. I watched their exhibition today to Stay by Hurts (the lyrics are quite poignant). They seemed really emotional but it felt heartfelt from the both of them, like a mutual goodbye. I loved the way Robin was looking at her in the beginning, and didn't sense any anger, just celebration of a great partnership, and Aljona was radiant (she's hardly ever looked better).

    I don't see anyone as being dumped here (well, Popova, but I mean out of S&S). If Robin is refusing to do the shows solely to spite her, than that's wrong, but there's no evidence of that and he's losing out on the money so I tend to believe he just doesn't want to skate and that's his prerogative just as it is hers to go on. She was the star of that team, and although he rose to her level, he's lucky she took a chance on him 10 years ago so it would hardly be fair of him to begrudge Massot, IMO. Lots of skaters end up partnerless as pros (Bourne, Grishuk, Gordeeva) and it's their choice to make it work or give up. I'd like to see him skate with someone else in shows; how about someone who struggles with jumps like Ilyuschkina or Martusheva so they can retire once and for all? I don't think either of them should be bitter... they're 5x World champions!

    I'm very intrigued that she mentioned offers from Russian men "if it doesn't work out with Massot." First of all, ouch for him. Of course it may not work out, but to say it in public is not exactly starting on the right foot. I'm very interested in why she wouldn't take the Russian offers because I have wondered why she'd bother to skate for any country but Russia or China if her intention is Olympic gold. You just know that in four years, no matter how good she and Massot are, they could fail to get the marks because there is a Russian team on the horizon who is the favorite for a gold. Why go through that again? And the Russian fed will surely help with funding and citizenship problems as well (they might even let her keep Steuer), so I'm surprised that's only her plan B. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and the options are Russian men who would switch to Germany.

    Finally, I noticed someone said the articles are hinting at her and Ingo being a couple... I thought they had broken up... so that's interesting and maybe Robin feels like they're shutting him out.

  5. #45

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    Your comment in Russian is completely inappropriate and offensive!!!

    [QUOTE=Tinami Amori;4225305]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    BILD (German article) was the first to confirm the new partnership of Aliona Savchenko and Bruno Massot of France: http://www.bild.de/sport/wintersport...2096.bild.html

    Entschulgigung sie mir bitte, aber das ist alles was ich sagen kann... oh.... nun deutschland ist nicht uber alles...... allons enfants de la patrie.

    продажная хохлушка......

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    It's sad to hear that they're not getting along. I watched their exhibition today to Stay by Hurts (the lyrics are quite poignant). They seemed really emotional but it felt heartfelt from the both of them, like a mutual goodbye. I loved the way Robin was looking at her in the beginning, and didn't sense any anger, just celebration of a great partnership, and Aljona was radiant (she's hardly ever looked better).

    I don't see anyone as being dumped here (well, Popova, but I mean out of S&S). If Robin is refusing to do the shows solely to spite her, than that's wrong, but there's no evidence of that and he's losing out on the money so I tend to believe he just doesn't want to skate and that's his prerogative just as it is hers to go on. She was the star of that team, and although he rose to her level, he's lucky she took a chance on him 10 years ago so it would hardly be fair of him to begrudge Massot, IMO. Lots of skaters end up partnerless as pros (Bourne, Grishuk, Gordeeva) and it's their choice to make it work or give up. I'd like to see him skate with someone else in shows; how about someone who struggles with jumps like Ilyuschkina or Martusheva so they can retire once and for all? I don't think either of them should be bitter... they're 5x World champions!

    I'm very intrigued that she mentioned offers from Russian men "if it doesn't work out with Massot." First of all, ouch for him. Of course it may not work out, but to say it in public is not exactly starting on the right foot. I'm very interested in why she wouldn't take the Russian offers because I have wondered why she'd bother to skate for any country but Russia or China if her intention is Olympic gold. You just know that in four years, no matter how good she and Massot are, they could fail to get the marks because there is a Russian team on the horizon who is the favorite for a gold. Why go through that again? And the Russian fed will surely help with funding and citizenship problems as well (they might even let her keep Steuer), so I'm surprised that's only her plan B. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and the options are Russian men who would switch to Germany.

    Finally, I noticed someone said the articles are hinting at her and Ingo being a couple... I thought they had broken up... so that's interesting and maybe Robin feels like they're shutting him out.
    I wouldn´t give too much about that fight right now. It could be a temporary thing, like they had a lot of times in the past. Robins reaction might be a hot shot decision, but I also had the feeling, that he is indeed tired. It was mentioned in a german article, that Ingo and Aliona had to really sweet-talk him into going to worlds. But I wouldn´t go for it, that they´re not getting along anymore. Robin might have guessed that Aliona will find a way to carry on with competition, but maybe he is just a little shocked that it happened so quickly. As for Robin in that ménage a trois, he was always the guy in the middle inbetween Ingo and Aliona, and that certainly wasn´t easy. Dönsdorf (head of the german fed) said in an recent interview, that we couldn´t give him enough credit for that

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by masik View Post
    Your comment in Russian is completely inappropriate and offensive!!!]
    You're right! that was not a good comment, it's changed in my post.

    Let me use different terms. If an athlete in professional sports changes countries, or performs in shows over-seas, that's understandable - it's work for personal benefit. Or, people may have to move/emigrate due to political or environmental force majeure, and have little choice but to move abroad. But in amateur sport one represents A COUNTRY/A FLAG.

    That should mean something, that one is part of that culture, society, music, art, dance; that one is a "product" of the "specifics of the area represented by the flag that is being raised". Otherwise WHY raise the flag???!!!

    She is Ukrainian, skated for Ukraine. Ukraine - no opportunities, so she moved and skated for Germany (not so strange, Ukrainians admiration for Germans, etc.). Few years go buy she is "germanaized"..... does well, earns top medals UNDER GERMAN FLAG, which is a MAJOR issue and event - the hymn and flag - the National Pride of the athletes, and proud singing of the country's HYMN!

    Now it is "off to France"..... which means now she is aiming to stand under a new National Flag and sing YET ANOTHER PATRIOTIC HYMN of this new country SHE HAS NO LINK TO until tomorrow?

    The continent of Europe is so wide, Mein Herr.
    Not only up and down, but side to side, Mein Herr.
    I couldn't ever cross it if I tried, Mein Herr.
    So I do..
    What I can...
    Inch by inch...
    Step by step...
    Mile by mile...
    Man by man.




    So!..... In Ukraine she was Garna Divchina. In Germany she was Kunst-Moderne.... is it logical to suppose now that she "french" she is Picante Coquette? I guess now that she is "french", we will see lots of Can-Can and Amelie?..

  8. #48

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    But if she already did it once, why is it a big deal if she does it again (which she may not even do...they still seem to be working out those details)?
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I'm very interested in why she wouldn't take the Russian offers because I have wondered why she'd bother to skate for any country but Russia or China if her intention is Olympic gold. You just know that in four years, no matter how good she and Massot are, they could fail to get the marks because there is a Russian team on the horizon who is the favorite for a gold. Why go through that again? And the Russian fed will surely help with funding and citizenship problems as well (they might even let her keep Steuer), so I'm surprised that's only her plan B. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and the options are Russian men who would switch to Germany.
    I am not sure if her original citizenship was Russian or Ukrainian. If she has Russian citizenship, it seems that it would be easier to skate for Russia with the potential Russian partner (from the citizenship point of view), but maybe Massot appeared to be the stronger partner than whoever else offered himself too her. Besides, if she decided to skate for Russia with that Russian partner, she would have no guarantee that they would even qualify for the Olympics. In four years time the competition among Russian pairs will be insane. At the moment Russia has Volosozhar-Trankov who want to continue, Stolbova-Klimov who are currently very strong, Bazarova-Larionov who did not have a good season but have pulled it together in the past and may sort out their jumps in the future and five junior pairs who got to JGPF and placed at 2-4 at junior worlds. In 2018 some of them may be very strong, the same way as Stolbova-Klimov were in 2010 only pretty successful juniors but nothing more and then they got silver at 2014 Olympics. And I don't even count into the mix Kavaguti-Smirnov because I think if they don't retire they will be declining because of their age and injuries, and Gerboldt-Enbert because I think there is far too much work to be done to be ready in 4 years. Whereas if Savchenko with any new partner skate for Germany or France, the chances are that there will be no competitors to think off. France has James-Cipres and Germany have the young partnership (forgot their names but the girl has been just competing for juniors last season; they show a lot of promise), but any country can have up to three spots; James-Cipres are capable of earning second spot and I don't think the young German partnership would be a threat for Savchenko at this moment. So skating for Germany or France would be much easier than skating for Russia. They would not have to attend German or French nationals and still would have their spot at Europeans/Worlds and Olympics pretty certain.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am not sure if her original citizenship was Russian or Ukrainian. If she has Russian citizenship, it seems that it would be easier to skate for Russia with the potential Russian partner (from the citizenship point of view), but maybe Massot appeared to be the stronger partner than whoever else offered himself too her. Besides, if she decided to skate for Russia with that Russian partner, she would have no guarantee that they would even qualify for the Olympics. In four years time the competition among Russian pairs will be insane. At the moment Russia has Volosozhar-Trankov who want to continue, Stolbova-Klimov who are currently very strong, Bazarova-Larionov who did not have a good season but have pulled it together in the past and may sort out their jumps in the future and five junior pairs who got to JGPF and placed at 2-4 at junior worlds. In 2018 some of them may be very strong, the same way as Stolbova-Klimov were in 2010 only pretty successful juniors but nothing more and then they got silver at 2014 Olympics. And I don't even count into the mix Kavaguti-Smirnov because I think if they don't retire they will be declining because of their age and injuries, and Gerboldt-Enbert because I think there is far too much work to be done to be ready in 4 years. Whereas if Savchenko with any new partner skate for Germany or France, the chances are that there will be no competitors to think off. France has James-Cipres and Germany have the young partnership (forgot their names but the girl has been just competing for juniors last season; they show a lot of promise), but any country can have up to three spots; James-Cipres are capable of earning second spot and I don't think the young German partnership would be a threat for Savchenko at this moment. So skating for Germany or France would be much easier than skating for Russia. They would not have to attend German or French nationals and still would have their spot at Europeans/Worlds and Olympics pretty certain.
    You mean Anabel Pröls/ Ruben Blommaert I guess....

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post

    Let me use different terms. If an athlete in professional sports changes countries, or performs in shows over-seas, that's understandable - it's work for personal benefit. Or, people may have to move/emigrate due to political or environmental force majeure, and have little choice but to move abroad. But in amateur sport one represents A COUNTRY/A FLAG.

    That should mean something, that one is part of that culture, society, music, art, dance; that one is a "product" of the "specifics of the area represented by the flag that is being raised". Otherwise WHY raise the flag???!!!

    She is Ukrainian, skated for Ukraine. Ukraine - no opportunities, so she moved and skated for Germany (not so strange, Ukrainians admiration for Germans, etc.). Few years go buy she is "germanaized"..... does well, earns top medals UNDER GERMAN FLAG, which is a MAJOR issue and event - the hymn and flag - the National Pride of the athletes, and proud singing of the country's HYMN!

    Now it is "off to France"..... which means now she is aiming to stand under a new National Flag and sing YET ANOTHER PATRIOTIC HYMN of this new country SHE HAS NO LINK TO until tomorrow?
    Well, I can't see anything wrong with it. I am sure she would prefer to team up with a German guy. It would be the easiest way. But if there is no one good enough, what else can she do? Considering that she was Ukrainian, Germany should feel happy for what she did for them, and just let her go if they can't offer her any good enough skater to continue with. USA is so huge that it would cover the whole Europe, why is it acceptable if a girl in the USA moves across the whole country to find a partner and if that partnership does not work out (or if it does but then later one of them retires), the girl again moves some 3000 miles, it is considered acceptable, but if it i within Europe, suddenly it is a problem? It is not Aliona's fault that Europe is divided to so many countries.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish-Angel View Post
    You mean Anabel Pröls/ Ruben Blommaert I guess....
    Yes, that's them! Thanks.

  13. #53

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    I don't understand and refuse to accept it. (1) why would she want to keep competing, with 5 world titles, JUST for that elusive OGM? (2) WHO would ditch Robin, that lovely man and PSOTY??
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    I don't understand and refuse to accept it. (1) why would she want to keep competing, with 5 world titles, JUST for that elusive OGM? (2) WHO would ditch Robin, that lovely man and PSOTY??


    Please translate PSOTY for the non mother tongues

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    I don't understand and refuse to accept it. (1) why would she want to keep competing, with 5 world titles, JUST for that elusive OGM? (2) WHO would ditch Robin, that lovely man and PSOTY??
    "why would she want to keep competing, with 5 world titles" - Why shouldn't she? If she feels that she hasn't achieved all she could achieve, who are you to tell her when she achieved enough? Are there any rules that you can get maximum 5 world titles and then you have to retire to give others a chance? There are not, as far as I know, so if she wants to compete forever, that's her choice. And if she wins 10 world titles I won't be holding it against her. If you think someone else should get the chance - they have the chance. All they need is to be best and they will have the worlds title.

    "WHO would ditch Robin" - well, she didn't ditch him; he decided to retire. That's his choice and he has right to choose the same way as she has right to choose to continue. So why are you blaming her for ditching him, and not blaming him for ditching her? I am sure she would prefer to continue competing with him if he wanted, rather than getting used to a new partner, so strictly speaking he is abandoning her.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    why would she want to keep competing, with 5 world titles
    The mind boggles. I guess she thinks she's the next Rodnina. I guess we'll just have to be content for the moment with "well, there's no law against it!" as an explanation.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am not sure if her original citizenship was Russian or Ukrainian.
    She skated for Ukraine in the 2002 Winter Olympics. She must, therefore, have had Ukrainian citizenship at the time.

  18. #58
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    If the report is correct, if I were Szolkowy, I would be more concerned that my future wife told Popova that she was about to be dumped without letting Massot do it

    I hope I'm not getting this backwards, and, of course, the entire story wasn't released, but didn't Kraatz convince Bourne to stay eligible to compete for the 2003 WC instead of going pro after SLC? Then he refused to go pro after they won 2003 WC's. I would be livid if someone pulled that bait-and-switch, and unless Szolkowy agreed and then refused to do the Japan shows because Savchenko changed the terms, then I'd be pretty pissed if I were she.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #59

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    I don't see how they could compete for France if they want to go to next Oly games, as she has already legally changed countries so I would think that takes France off the table for her, on the other hand, if they don't go for 2018 Oly then it doesn't matter and they could skate for France...

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If the report is correct, if I were Szolkowy, I would be more concerned that my future wife told Popova that she was about to be dumped without letting Massot do it
    I think if Aliona and Robin were fighting about something, this is probably why. I mean the three of them (Ingo) have been through all kinds of craziness together and have always been very loyal even when it made their lives more difficult. I don't think there are hard feelings about her getting a new partner. I feel like she's been hanging on to hope that they'd win worlds and he'd change his mind about retiring. I think Massot was still a backup plan. Robin is supposed to be getting married any time now, and maybe fiance just wanted to help along his retirement by outing Massot so he can't return to Popova... Or maybe the wedding is why he cancelled those shows. There could be a million reasons, but I don't think it's any kind of payback on Aliona for "dumping" him.

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