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  1. #21
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    A lot of people have raised questions regarding the Sochi competition.

    I think the specific complaint filed by the Korean federation addresses some of the questions people have raised about conflicts of interests by the judges.

    The existence of people's questions doesn't by itself call into question the results but it is worth the ISU giving consideration to them. I don't think that any investigation is going to lead to any alteration of results, but if there are steps they can take in the future to reduce the appearance of conflicts of interest, it would be a good thing.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    What a bunch of crybabies, seriously. :p It's all about character, accept the decision, congratulate the winner, move on.

    Or forever be known as a sore loser...
    Exactly Nadine. Well said. Just a bunch of sore losers.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    Those Carolina Fans are me,

    I don't care what country served the complaint, As long as someone did,


    And i don't find anything "Classy" about shutting up in the face of something you think is unjust,

    If anything, The whole KOC\KSU articulation in this complaint, if you read their statement, is being very classy.
    exactly!

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    Good for them! Having a judge who was suspended for cheating on the panel at the Olympics... Are you kidding? And another married to the Fed present.. IIRC. Investigate the $hit out of all of them. Review every tech call if you have to. Every edge on every jump. Show some integrity.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    Good for them! Having a judge who was suspended for cheating on the panel at the Olympics... Are you kidding? And another married to the Fed present.. IIRC. Investigate the $hit out of all of them. Review every tech call if you have to. Every edge on every jump. Show some integrity.
    ITA! People simply don't have confidence in the results reached by biased and/or corrupt judges, regardless of the merits of the performances at issue. Furthermore, if a review justifies Adelina's win (on the theory that "all out" prevails) then so much the better for her, too.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Exactly Nadine. Well said. Just a bunch of sore losers.
    Even if some people think this reeks of being a sore loser, I think we can all agree that IJS hasn't done anything to get rid of, let alone improve, the politics and corruption from within the system. Corruption has been brewing throughout various international competitions each year IJS has been in place. And it finally exploded at the Sochi Olympics in almost every event.

    It's good that someone/some federation is stepping up to force the ISU to investigate this, complain, and analyze the horrific judging that went down at the Olympics because we need to overturn this system, even if it means mass upheaval of many figure skating officials and judging in general.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Exactly Nadine. Well said. Just a bunch of sore losers.
    I'm finding it hard to understand some malicious posts here,
    Don't you have to at least be a competitor in a race to qualify as a sore loser ?

    Maofan7, Aren't you a fan of skating ?
    We're all in this together you know.

  8. #28
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    Would this complaint have been filed with the same judging panel in place if Yuna Kim had won? I HIGHLY doubt it! Nothing about Yuna's performances in either program segment justified her as the clear winner over Kostner or Sotnikova, especially considering the fact that she had 1 less triple in the LP to both of them. Her artistry certainly is not without a shadow of a doubt better than Kostner. I can see the argument that in PCS, she is better than Sotnikova, but I truly do believe that what Adelina does in the spins (with higher levels) and with the added tech content of 7 triples including a 2Axel+3toe and a 3Lutz+3toe attempt would be enough to prop her over a Yuna Kim, who was not at her peak the way she was in Vancouver. The energy and enthusiasm levels between Sotnikova and Kim were like night and day. Yuna appeared so reserved, it was as if she were skating in a practice session. Adelina's spark and feisty attitude lit up the crowd and the difference between the 2 approaches did affect the judges. It was a very close race all the way around with those 3 in Sochi; nothing at all like Vancouver where Kim was the clear winner without a shadow of a doubt.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    I don't particularly disagree with the Sochi results, and I think that Kim could have been bronze behind Carolina. Just so you know the side of the argument that I am coming from.

    I applaud the KSU/KOC for being willing to make waves and for questioning the make-up of the panel. How many people here have said, repeatedly, that anonymous judging needs to end? How many times have we heard complaints about back room deals and questionable judges? Now, maybe the ISU will have to address these issues instead of sweeping them under the rug behind closed doors.
    Not according to these Italian commentators

    http://vimeo.com/89457478

    If it bring improvement to the judging system by removing anonymity and improve transparency and accountability, I am all for it!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Would this complaint have been filed with the same judging panel in place if Yuna Kim had won? I HIGHLY doubt it! Nothing about Yuna's performances in either program segment justified her as the clear winner over Kostner or Sotnikova, especially considering the fact that she had 1 less triple in the LP to both of them. Her artistry certainly is not without a shadow of a doubt better than Kostner. I can see the argument that in PCS, she is better than Sotnikova, but I truly do believe that what Adelina does in the spins (with higher levels) and with the added tech content of 7 triples including a 2Axel+3toe and a 3Lutz+3toe attempt would be enough to prop her over a Yuna Kim, who was not at her peak the way she was in Vancouver. It was a very close race all the way around with those 3 in Sochi; nothing at all like Vancouver where Kim was the clear winner without a shadow of a doubt.

    Some people who support this investigation don't necessarily think Kim should've won.

    Regarding your arguments, Kim had 6 triples in her Vancouver FS as well,
    Joannie had 7, One bad landing and a home crowed (And lots of others) rooting for her like Sotnikova had, She probs shoulda won right?

  11. #31
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    IMO, it's a mighty HUGE request to expect a judging panel to unbiasedly embrace 2 programs that most, if not all of them, had never seen before. Sotnikova's and Kostner's programs had been debuted prior to Sochi in major competitions and they had received valuable feedback from seasoned ISU judges and the ISU community has had time to warm up to their programs and performances of said programs. Yuna's SP was nice; however, I still would have marked it 2nd behind Kostner. Kim's LP left me very lukewarm and I definitely felt she was not providing enough emotion and I definitely sensed she was tight as well. For anyone to claim that it was an unquestionable gold medal winning performance is a major head-scratcher for me. I would have easily marked her LP as only 3rd best behind Kostner and Sotnikova.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 03-21-2014 at 11:00 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    IMO, it's a mighty HUGE request to expect a judging panel to unbiasedly embrace 2 programs that most, if not all of them, had never seen before. Sotnikova's and Kostner's programs had been debuted prior to Sochi in major competitions and they had received valuable feedback from seasoned ISU judges and the ISU community has had time to warm up to their programs and performances of said programs. Yuna's SP was nice; however, I still would have marked it 2nd behind Kostner. Kim's LP left me very lukewarm and I definitely felt she was not providing enough emotion and I definitely sensed she was tight as well. For anyone to claim that it was an unquestionable gold medal winning performance is a major head-scratcher for me.
    If it's too much to ask of them then they Shouldn't be judges at that event.

  13. #33

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    Stay classy, Korean Fed. A thiny veiled request to strip the medals and reaward them.

    Maybe they shouldn't have pushed Yuna into continuing to compete and none of this would have happened, and I'm sure Yuna herself would be a lot happier. Now I hope for her sake she gets well away from these people, because you just know they are expecting her to compete at 2018...where no doubt we will see some *gasp!*...inflated scores!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Not according to these Italian commentators

    http://vimeo.com/89457478

    If it bring improvement to the judging system by removing anonymity and improve transparency and accountability, I am all for it!


    I gotta say, It feels a lot like a couple of people just recorded themselves over the event

    Is this actual Italian commentary? Maybe i should learn Italian

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    What a sad place the world would be if everyone thought like this. Women not getting paid the same for doing the same job as a man? Suck it up and stop whining! you're lucky we even let you vote! Really? Like what? The ladies event was the only thing that really stood out for me. Maybe the Dance bronze. Maybe.
    It isnt just the final medals, but the scores. V&T getting +3s for both their throws even though they missed them (hands down on one, two footed the other). A team like S&S were forced now to try a crazy program, including a throw 3 axel to try to beat them, when the door should have now been open for them to win without that. The scores of all the Russians all Olympics long were crazy and undeserved.

    It is also about the placements of the entire field. Basically it was just by luck that the final medals in pairs, dance, and mens werent that bad. Based on the obvious corruption that went into the scoring it was probably 95% likely there would be a Sotnikova like scandalous result long before the ladies. The performances just panned out that somehow that didnt happen.

  16. #36

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    Hersh's article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,3598770.story
    In a Friday statement, the Korean Olympic Committee and Korean skating federation called the judging of Kim "unreasonable and unfair."

    The complaint alleges violations of the IOC Code of Ethics, based on the presence of two particular judges on the panel for the free skate and on "suspicions of bias by other judges."
    ...

    In what is supposed to be a blind draw for judges, four of the nine changed between the short program and the free skate.

    Two of the new judges sparked controversy because of their backgrounds. Both are identified by name in the Korean statement.

    One was Alla Shekhovtseva, wife of Valentin Piseev, former president of the Russian Figure Skating Federation and its current general director. Another, Yuri Balkov of Ukraine, was suspended for one year for being part of a result-fixing affair in 1998.

    The Korean statement mentions that Shekhovtseva was seen hugging Sotnikova soon after the victory ceremony at the Iceberg Arena.

    In an exclusive interview with the Tribune one day after the women's final, ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta of Italy defended the presence of both Shekhovtseva and Balkov.

    “Would you rather have an idiot acting as a judge than a good one who is a relative of the manager of a federation?” Cinquanta said. “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest.

    “I can’t suspend a person for life for a minor violation. (Balkov) is a matter for the Ukraine federation because they chose to send him.”
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    Those Carolina Fans are me,

    I don't care what country served the complaint, As long as someone did,


    And i don't find anything "Classy" about shutting up in the face of something you think is unjust,

    If anything, The whole KOC\KSU articulation in this complaint, if you read their statement, is being very classy.
    this.

    ksu/koc just wanted to know the composition of the judging panel.. if there's any violation etc.. they're just trying to find out what happened.. so i don't see anything wrong with it..

  18. #38
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    The quotes from Cinquanta go a long way toward showing the problem.

    “Would you rather have an idiot acting as a judge than a good one who is a relative of the manager of a federation?” Cinquanta said. “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest.

    “I can’t suspend a person for life for a minor violation. (Balkov) is a matter for the Ukraine federation because they chose to send him.”
    The ISU simply has no concept of a problem with the appearance of conflict of interest. And they have no awareness of the problem in the appearance of passing off responsibility to member federations.

    A reasonable argument could be made for Adelina, Carolina or Yu Na as winner in Sochi. This was a close competition. In such a case the ISU's lack of concern with propriety as well as transparency undermines the legitimacy of the results. They need to consider this complaint seriously and move to change this institutional culture.

    If people don't like Adelina's win being brought into question, they need to look first and foremost at the ISU which leaves itself open to having the legitimacy of its results questioned by accepting a kind of insider culture that appears problematic to a lot of observers.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Would this complaint have been filed with the same judging panel in place if Yuna Kim had won?
    Of course not. But....

    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    ITA! People simply don't have confidence in the results reached by biased and/or corrupt judges, regardless of the merits of the performances at issue. Furthermore, if a review justifies Adelina's win (on the theory that "all out" prevails) then so much the better for her, too.
    If the judges are doing their jobs, then their judging should stand up to scrutiny and review. I think Adelina would still win handily.

    The problem is that no matter what a review would decide, people will still think that the review system itself is corrupt. If a review panel agreed with the Sochi results, for example, will anyone who thinks that the results were wrong change their minds about it? And if they decided that the results were questionable, would that change the minds of the people who thought the results were correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    If people don't like Adelina's win being brought into question, they need to look first and foremost at the ISU which leaves itself open to having the legitimacy of its results questioned by accepting a kind of insider culture that appears problematic to a lot of observers.
    But I think Cinquanta has a point as well--you have a limited pool of judges. Those judges come from a very small world where everyone knows everyone else. Where are you going to find judges who don't come from this insider culture and don't have connections to others within that same world?
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    “Would you rather have an idiot acting as a judge than a good one who is a relative of the manager of a federation?” Cinquanta said. “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest.

    “I can’t suspend a person for life for a minor violation. (Balkov) is a matter for the Ukraine federation because they chose to send him.”


    That is hilarious. Does that jackass take everyone else for fools. First off nobody in their right mind has ever considered Alla Bribeshektseva a good judge. That she is a horrible judge who just happens to have a conflict of interest and a history of cheating makes it all the worse. He talks about idiots but truly only an idiot would use the defense of Alla being a "good judge".

    As for the Balkov part give me a break. Someone like Jean Senft was blackballed by life by him and his cronies for exposing Balkov's corruption but he was back by next season.

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