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  1. #1

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    Who must move up to Seniors in Pairs and Dance next season due to new age rules?

    New age rules are in place for next season. What are the new cutoffs, and which Pair and Dance teams will have to move up to Seniors for next season?

  2. #2

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    We'll have to wait and see what happens at the ISU Congress in June.

    Re-posting from the Junior Worlds forum in Kiss and Cry:
    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I believe there will be a proposal to move the age for the male partner in pairs and ice dance back up to 21 at Congress in Dublin.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    I believe the changes were lowering the age of male partners in Pairs and Ice Dance from 21 to 20 and singles from 19 to 18?

    On paper, those changes do make sense and I would support them. But the problem is that Grand Prix is very exclusive and insular and Senior Worlds have very high minimum scores. So for a lot of skaters, there are few opportunities to skate at major events once they age out.

  4. #4

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    The new rule that passed at the ISU Congress in 2012 lowered the ISU Junior male partners' maximum age by one year.

    ISU Rule 108 as currently published: http://static.isu.org/media/79153/20...egulations.pdf
    Relevant exerpts:
    2. Age limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance
    ...
    c) In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1st preceding these Events:
    i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
    ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in singles competition; and
    iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age of twenty-one (21) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance competition.

    ...

    Effective July 1st, 2014 the following applies:
    ...
    3. Age limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance
    ...
    b) In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1st preceding the event:
    i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
    ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in singles competition; and
    iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age of twenty (20) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance competition.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Ah so it was still 19 for singles. Thanks for linking that, Sylvia.

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    + It was also lowering the singles novice skaters age by one year (from 15 to 14) with getting back the age of 17 for novice ice dance and pairs males and ending the "age disproportion" between ISU champs and other events for senior and 15 is the new magic senior number.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by oubik View Post
    + It was also lowering the singles novice skaters age by one year (from 15 to 14) with getting back the age of 17 for novice ice dance and pairs males and ending the "age disproportion" between ISU champs and other events for senior and 15 is the new magic senior number.
    Is there any word on whether or not these other age rules that passed in 2010 will go into effect? Or is the male pairs/dance maximum age rule the only one being reconsidered?
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    I really hope that 15 does become the age for all senior competitions because the current disparity does not make sense.

    I would also support lowering the maximum Novice age to 14 (and 17 for male Pair and Ice Dance partners), given you can complete in Juniors from age 13 and Seniors from age 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    ...which Pair and Dance teams will have to move up to Seniors for next season?
    Apparently nobody!

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    I think this is correct for the Canadian male dancers

    1 Mackenzie Bent / Garrett MacKeen EO 59.63 82.98 142.61 age 20
    5 Carolane Soucisse / Simon Tanguay QC 46.52 80.43 126.95 age 21
    6 Lauren Collins / Danny Seymour CO 45.78 74.15 119.93 – split age 20
    7 Audrey Croteau-Villeneuve / Dominic Barthe QC 46.27 65.03 111.30 – split age 21
    13 Caroline Falardeau / Benjamin Mulder QC 43.67 58.12 101.79 age 20
    14 Alexa Linden / Eric Streichsbier BC/YK 39.04 57.10 96.14 – split age 20
    17 Margo Huen / Matthew Webb NS 38.98 56.86 95.84 age 20
    18 Jade Robitaille / Philippe Granger QC 42.36 48.55 90.91 ??
    19 Jocelyn Leblanc / Jean-Luc Jackson SK 39.08 49.72 88.80 age 20
    21 Andie-Lynn Gingrich / Dayton Stewart AB/NT/NU 36.96 44.06 81.02 age 20
    22 Abigail Seewald / Steven Paslawsky AB/NT/NU 35.31 42.63 77.94 age 20
    WD Jessica Jiang / Tyler Miller BC/YK age 20

  11. #11
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    I believe at least three countries have put in proposals to the ISU to keep the current ages for male pair and dance partners.

    When you look at how small the field was this year at Junior Worlds for pair (with even less countries represented), lowering the male age doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Males don't really attain their adult body shapes/physique/muscle strength until older so this makes sense.

    We could end up with a real 'no man's land' in pair. With junior under 20 and then senior pair men ( at the top level) all being around 24/25 or older.

    Just take a look at the ages of the top pairs now, the men are considerably older than 20.

    Hopefully the ISU will consider all of the stats and think about whether they are serious about developing pairs worldwide or not.

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    My sister, who is still slightly involved with skating in the Vancouver area, was telling me that Skate Canada is one of the countries to put forward the proposal to the ISU to keep the 21 age requirement. Apparently the proposal wouldn't go to the ISU for a vote until the summer...which obviously would give coaches/skaters zero time to prepare should it go through (as I assume if it did go through, those who could do an extra year junior would do so). To rectify the situation, my sister was told that the Skate Canada high performance committee has decided that for the upcoming season, the 21 age requirement will stay in place for domestic competitions....no matter what the outcome of the ISU vote. Only Canadian teams competing internationally will have to meet ISU age requirements. Good job Skate Canada!!

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by La La Candy View Post
    My sister, who is still slightly involved with skating in the Vancouver area, was telling me that Skate Canada is one of the countries to put forward the proposal to the ISU to keep the 21 age requirement. Apparently the proposal wouldn't go to the ISU for a vote until the summer...which obviously would give coaches/skaters zero time to prepare should it go through (as I assume if it did go through, those who could do an extra year junior would do so). To rectify the situation, my sister was told that the Skate Canada high performance committee has decided that for the upcoming season, the 21 age requirement will stay in place for domestic competitions....no matter what the outcome of the ISU vote. Only Canadian teams competing internationally will have to meet ISU age requirements. Good job Skate Canada!!
    There is a number of teams (at least in Russia) who competed at both junior and senior level, for example at both junior and senior nationals. That meant that they had two versions of the same programs, one slightly shorted and with less elements. So I can't see a reason why the skaters and coaches you are talking about wouldn't have time to prepare if they don't know the outcome until the summer. They can for example prepare the junior program and make sure that they are ready for August because the junior season start sooner, and then if they find out in the summer that they are not eligible for juniors, they will add 30 seconds or how much longer the senior program is and add the extra element. They will still have a month to do those changes because seniors season starts six weeks later than junior season. Actually, this is pretty common in single skating too. Polina Edmunds competed internationally in both junior and seniors this season, so did Elena Radionova. Sakhanovich, Proklova and Medvedeva competed in Russian senior nationals, so they had to have junior and senior version too. And four junior pairs competed in senior nationals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    There is a number of teams (at least in Russia) who competed at both junior and senior level, for example at both junior and senior nationals. That meant that they had two versions of the same programs, one slightly shorted and with less elements. So I can't see a reason why the skaters and coaches you are talking about wouldn't have time to prepare if they don't know the outcome until the summer. They can for example prepare the junior program and make sure that they are ready for August because the junior season start sooner, and then if they find out in the summer that they are not eligible for juniors, they will add 30 seconds or how much longer the senior program is and add the extra element. They will still have a month to do those changes because seniors season starts six weeks later than junior season. Actually, this is pretty common in single skating too. Polina Edmunds competed internationally in both junior and seniors this season, so did Elena Radionova. Sakhanovich, Proklova and Medvedeva competed in Russian senior nationals, so they had to have junior and senior version too. And four junior pairs competed in senior nationals.
    Sorry, I forgot to say that this is for ice dance - not pairs. I understand there are dancers who compete internationally both at the junior and senior level and therefore have 2 different short dance programs and altered/lengthened free dance programs...but I think the concern with Skate Canada was more related to the national level competitors who don't compete internationally and maybe don't have the resources to prepare 2 short dances..one that would never be used.

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    I guess I am of a minority here but I am hoping that the rules are not changed and that the boys at the age of 20 will need to go senior. As a mother of a girl searching for a senior ice dance partner the field of prospects is pretty dim if the 20 yr olds are allowed to skate in junior for yet another year where as the girls are forced to skate senior at 19.

    After watching the pairs competition at worlds yesterday I was sickened by the composition of many of the teams - a prepubescent girl with a 25 yr or older balding male. I think there should be a rule governing how much of an age gap there can be between the partners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogueskater View Post
    After watching the pairs competition at worlds yesterday I was sickened by the composition of many of the teams - a prepubescent girl with a 25 yr or older balding male. I think there should be a rule governing how much of an age gap there can be between the partners.
    Then there would be even less pairs around if you make regulation about age difference between the partners. It is hard enough to find a partner at all, so if you had to decline someone because he/she is more than let's say 5 years older or younger, there would soon be no pair skating. Wouldn't your daughter be happy for a skating partner even if he was 8-10 years older? Or would be be more happy that she hasn't got anyone at all?

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    In my opinion an age gap restriction should be considered. I think there is something odd and disturbing when I look at a 29 yr old man with a prepubescent girl doing senior pairs. Maybe there would be an increase number of teams if a stop was put into place. I guess unless a true research study is conducted on that, we won't truly know.

    Whether it is ice dance or pairs, girls are being made to feel like they are washed up and not worthy by these rules as written forcing them to go senior at 19 whereas the males are allowed to hang out in the junior eligible ranks for additional years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogueskater View Post
    I guess I am of a minority here but I am hoping that the rules are not changed and that the boys at the age of 20 will need to go senior. As a mother of a girl searching for a senior ice dance partner the field of prospects is pretty dim if the 20 yr olds are allowed to skate in junior for yet another year where as the girls are forced to skate senior at 19.

    After watching the pairs competition at worlds yesterday I was sickened by the composition of many of the teams - a prepubescent girl with a 25 yr or older balding male. I think there should be a rule governing how much of an age gap there can be between the partners.
    Among the sixteen teams who qualified for the freeskate, only three of the women are under 20 (born in 1995 or later): the other three are 16; nearly 17; and 18 turning 19 in July. I wouldn't call that "many of the teams" having a "prepubescent girl." (Of the seven teams eliminated after the short program, three have a girl under 20 (born in 1995 or later).)

    Pair men usually aren't ready for Seniors at 20; this is especially true if their partner is past puberty. Lifts are generally far more complex than they were pre-IJS, and men tend to grow and "bulk" between 19 and 21. There is also the issue of wear-and-tear: perhaps a 20 year old man can do a Level 4 lift with a fully-grown partner, but he may not have the strength, experience, or muscle memory to do three or four different Level 4 lifts several dozen times per day, plus triple twists. It's an age range where many men come into pair skating, and with the current rules that emphasize success in Junior (i.e., points accumulated), it's very challenging for new, young Senior teams to get on the Grand Prix if neither partner has points accumulated from Junior.

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    5Ali3 you bring up a very interesting and true point about the current rules for accumulating points in the junior levels. It is very biased toward boys as they are able to stay junior until the age of 21. This again is a disadvantage for girls as they currently have a shorter time in junior. If boys are able to stay junior until 21 then girls should be able to as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogueskater View Post
    5Ali3 you bring up a very interesting and true point about the current rules for accumulating points in the junior levels. It is very biased toward boys as they are able to stay junior until the age of 21. This again is a disadvantage for girls as they currently have a shorter time in junior. If boys are able to stay junior until 21 then girls should be able to as well.
    Yeah, if they really don't want to move up, guys can just switch partners, while girls have to move up earlier.

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