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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    But no plane has been found in those relatively shallow waters so far despite the massive search effort involved, that's what's puzzling.
    And if the government is aware of the plane's whereabouts, why continue the widespread search effort involving international military and rescue teams?
    I agree, it is not a perfect explanation. The whole situation is very bizarre on top of being very sad

    I guess we just don't know now far the plane could have flown after radar contact was lost. I assume it is possible that searchers are not even in the right area.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    That pilot showed amazing presence of mind during crisis.
    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Yes, even when he must have realised the plane was doomed because the hijackers were too stupid to understand that just because the plane was capable of carrying that much fuel, it didn't mean it WAS.

    He did an impressively good job; it was just such a horrible shame he got caught by the water.
    Yes, both pilots did such a good job and Leul Abate (the captain) really handled the whole situation well. Very unfortunate that there was a last minute struggle with the hijackers that made it impossible for him to get to the runway on Grande Comore in time, which necessitated the water landing.

    He was interviewed for the Air Crash Investigation episode about that crash and it's very touching to hear him speak about how he was trying to will the plane to make it through the landing. And a lot more people would have survived that crash had they not inflated their life vests while still on the plane. If anyone ever ends up in a water landing: don't do that. You'll drown.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 03-12-2014 at 09:54 AM.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    And a lot more people would have survived that crash had they not inflated their life vests while still on the plane. If anyone ever ends up in a water landing: don't do that. You'll drown.
    It's unbelievable how many times there's a water ditching on ACI and all these idiots do exactly the same thing.

    I think it was that one where I got really annoyed that one of the survivors was an idiot who'd not only inflated his lifejacket, but after being immediately and explicitly told not to inflate the lifejacket inside the plane, then proceeded to inflate his girlfriend's as soon as the steward walked away! I mean, I know it sounds harsh, but this guy basically acted like he knew everything better than the stewards, did all the wrong things, and was one of the survivors.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    It's unbelievable how many times there's a water ditching on ACI and all these idiots do exactly the same thing.
    More people need to watch the show and learn from it I mean, sometimes there's nothing anyone can do, but it is very interesting to realize just what kind of stuff an airplane can survive when pilots are professional and quick-thinking. And if I'm ever on an airplane that experiences fuel starvation, at least I'll know there's a chance. And I won't inflate my life jacket too soon!

  5. #85
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    The Malaysian military is acting fishy to say the least, and the idea that they might have shot down the plane themselves is intriguing. Otherwise, if they knew the plane's last known position was over the Straits of Malacca with a western trajectory, why did they allow all that effort and several lost days in the Gulf of Thailand if they knew the whole time the plane wasn't likely anywhere near there?

    Or conversely, perhaps they do know more than they are saying and needed to actually divert attention to another region, because they are still searching the Gulf and beyond? And this is where China comes into it - if the plane made it across the Gulf and Vietnam (it's original flight path anyway) and went missing over the South China Sea, now we have an international incident as those waters are highly contested, most aggressively by China. What if the Chinese military is involved? Maybe they've already found the wreckage and want to hold their cards closer to their chest for now. Maybe they are negotiating with the Malaysian military now, or the two governments are fighting over jurisdiction due to location and passenger nationality.

    ETA - I wonder if the show ACI being referenced is the same as Mayday with a different name - because I also remember the episode about the crash in the Indian Ocean and the lifevests. Every time we fly and they go through the demo I remind my husband - whatever you do, don't inflate until we're off the plane!

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    ETA - I wonder if the show ACI being referenced is the same as Mayday with a different name - because I also remember the episode about the crash in the Indian Ocean and the lifevests. Every time we fly and they go through the demo I remind my husband - whatever you do, don't inflate until we're off the plane!
    It is. They use different names for it in different countries. It's funny because you never expect so many people to watch it, but whenever I bring it up, people mention watching it themselves!

  7. #87
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    Aha! Pretty good for a Canadian tv show

  8. #88

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    Maybe this is a stoopid question, but why is it bad to inflate the life vests beforehand?

  9. #89
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    If the plane goes underwater, you become bouyant inside the plane and cannot get out the doors (it is very difficult to swim against a life vest).

    It also makes you wider, and reduces mobility, so fewer people can get out the doors quickly, but the first reason is the biggie.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard View Post
    Maybe this is a stoopid question, but why is it bad to inflate the life vests beforehand?
    1) Small chance the emergency is avoided (no need to have many passengers with inflated vests, which are useless now for remainder of the flight).
    2) Exit Door blocking during evac/lesser mobility in the cabin
    3) Bouncing off evacuation slide
    4) If cabin floods the pax with inflated vests float up/get stuck in sinking cabin/plane
    5) If evac-slide n/a and pax must jump in water, with inflated vests they are immediately subjected to waves/water currents and loose control. Waves can through pax against A/C body, or drift away from life-rafts.

  11. #91
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    I never thought about inflating (or not) the life vest in the plane, but I hope this is one piece of info I learned on FSU that I never need to use!
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  12. #92
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    I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

    They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

    They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.
    Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.

    Maybe they should just show clips from relevant ACI episodes during the safety briefing

  14. #94
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    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    I didn't see this posted anywhere: a crowd-sourcing search of the ocean. Though I don't know if it's in the original search area or in the new area:

    http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014
    I saw this on the news this morning. Apparently there were so many people on the site that it is experiencing technical difficulties. A few unusual-looking things have been reported though.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.
    There was the crash that killed Payne Stewart, too. Same thing. My dad was a big fan of his, so I remember when it happened.
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  17. #97

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    Possible floating debris in satellite image just released

    Chinese release satellite image (from Sunday) of possible floating debris from missing plane -- in location of original flight path when plane when missing.
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  18. #98
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    Wow. This is getting more confusing every day. Haven't they searched the Gulf of Thailand already and that specific area? And what about the alleged U turn and going over the Straights of Malacca???

    Something is rotten in the state of Malaysia.
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  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I think airlines need to emphasize this more - I had no idea either until I saw that ep of Mayday. I know frequent fliers don't even pay attention to the demo, but you'd think after that crash where it was a serious factor they'd say that it's VERY important to not inflate until you are outside the plane.

    They also don't do a good job of explaining why you need to put your own oxygen mask on before you put it on your child or assist others. I would think the instinct of most parents especially would be to put it on their child first, and when seconds count in the moment of panic, that's not a smart idea.
    Really? I flew just yesterday and in the safety briefing they made it explicitly clear that you were not to inflate the lifejacket until you were outside the aircraft. They also made sure to emphasise that you put on your mask first. (And though it was always part of the briefing, Qantas now also emphasises "pull down firmly to activate the flow of oxygen". A few years ago, there was an incident where a Qantas plane suddenly lost a couple thousand feet in height. The masks dropped, people just grabbed them and put them on, and then there was an endless wailing set up about how the oxygen wasn't working and it was terrible and blah blah blah. Because no-one pulled down like the briefing said.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Yes, how hard can it be to explain to people that they will become hypoxic without immediately putting on the oxygen mask, and then they won't be of any use to anyone? See the famous Helios "ghost flight" for an example of what happens without oxygen at cruising altitude.
    Oh gosh, the Helios episode I think is still one of the most heartbreaking episodes in all of ACI...imagine being the only person left on the plane conscious...

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Every time we fly and they go through the demo I remind my husband - whatever you do, don't inflate until we're off the plane!
    Don't be in a hurry to inflate your vest even when off the plane.

    Few examples. Examine the distance between your position outside the a/c and life-raft. Can you step into it? Do you have to swim towards it?
    If you can step in, then step in, then worry about inflating.
    If you have to swim for it, (assuming you can swim), evaluate the water conditions, waves, wind, swell, and then decide if inflated vest will expedite you towards the raft, or pull in opposite direction. Sometimes it is best to swim to the raft before inflating vest.
    Before inflating vest, make sure where you stand, or where you're jumping there are NO SHARP objects that can tear the vest.

    And so on..... use your head, and run through your mind how reasonable stewards' instructions are. They are trained to "repeat the same mantra", and you have your head to think.

    Always evaluate ANY life-saving devise in regards to surrounding conditions and your goal - will they help you or hinder you.

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