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  1. #21

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    I think we will know more when and if the black box is found, that will show if the plane's engines stalled or if there was a loss of air pressure causing the pilots to pass out and the plane to loss control. I'm actually hoping that whatever happened happened so fast that no one on the plane was aware and no one suffered.


    I just read on AOL that radar shows the plane may had started to make a U Turn before it disappeared from radar. However no distress signal was sent from the plane if engine trouble was the reason the plane was making the U Turn.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    I just read on AOL that radar shows the plane may had started to make a U Turn before it disappeared from radar. However no distress signal was sent from the plane if engine trouble was the reason the plane was making the U Turn.
    The question would be whether it was a controlled turn instigated by the pilots or a turn caused by a loss of control of the airplane.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    Zippy can you give an example of when somebody waited to long to claim something so big?

    I can't. It doesn't sit right with terrorism. It's normally claimed within 24 hours to achieve maximum impact and destruction. No one feels particularly terrorised when they think there is every chance it could be an accident!!

    Those stolen passports would only ring alarm bells if they had the same number as those stolen, rather than the same name. Also, Malaysia is a country which allows hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers to pass through it every year, on their way to seek asylum in other countries by arriving there illegally. If anyone turns a blind eye to fake IDs, it's Malaysia!

    At this stage I feel like terrorism is increasingly unlikely. It still can't be ruled out, but if it had been claimed there would be a huge impact on air travel right now, as well as immense fear. Groups don't wait to claim - it lessens the impact.
    I don't believe anyone in al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 9/11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. Osama Bin Laden initially denied involvement. I believe the first statement from anyone directly connected with al Qaeda that seemed to acknowledge responsibility was a video that released in October 2001.

    One thing worth pointing out is that last week was the start of a major trial connected to 9/11 -- of Sulaiman abu Ghaith, the spokesman who actually was the speaker in the video I just mentioned.

  4. #24

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    They may have found one of the plane's doors:
    http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-m...161951222.html

    The article also states that very few countries routinely check against the Interpol lists of stolen passports.
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  5. #25
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    I wonder if the entire plane went into the ocean without breaking up. If the plane broke in midair or upon impact with the water then the search planes and ships would've seen a lot of debris by now.

    Doesn't the plane black box automatically emit a location signal in an accident?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    They may have found one of the plane's doors:
    http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-m...161951222.html
    There are now reports that the debris found is not from the missing airliner.

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    I wonder if the entire plane went into the ocean without breaking up. If the plane broke in midair or upon impact with the water then the search planes and ships would've seen a lot of debris by now.
    Is that even possible? Wouldn't at least some debris and bodies have been found, like in the case of the 2009 Air France flight?

    It's just too soon to say what happened, especially considering that they've found no wreckage so far, let alone the flight recorder.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by reckless View Post
    I don't believe anyone in al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 9/11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. Osama Bin Laden initially denied involvement. I believe the first statement from anyone directly connected with al Qaeda that seemed to acknowledge responsibility was a video that released in October 2001.

    One thing worth pointing out is that last week was the start of a major trial connected to 9/11 -- of Sulaiman abu Ghaith, the spokesman who actually was the speaker in the video I just mentioned.
    True, but it's not entirely the same thing. 9/11 was clearly terror. Without anyone claiming this, it seems like an accident, which kind of defeats the purpose of terrorism.

    On an unrelated note, there was a couple on board who owned a business near my parents' place. I must have been there several times. They worked so hard, they left their kids with relatives in China for a while and were going to visit them. One is a toddle, one is a baby. Very sad
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  8. #28

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    Is it possible to steal a plane this size mid-air? To make it disappear as this one did?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Is it possible to steal a plane this size mid-air? To make it disappear as this one did?
    Wouldn't the plane still show up on radar, considering that it was at cruising altitude? IIRC, the 9/11 hijackers turned off the airplanes' transponders but they were still visible to ATC on radar.

  10. #30

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    The news says they've identified one of the people who used one of the stolen passports. They aren't releasing details on that yet, other than to say he was not Malaysian:
    http://gma.yahoo.com/officials-ident...opstories.html

    Although they do say this:

    China is sending a delegation to Malaysia to assist in identifying the passengers who held fake passports.
    That article also says the following:

    During a Monday press briefing, a reporter asked Hussein [Transport Minister for Malaysia] about reports that a media personality received an open letter from the Leader of Chinese Martyr Brigade claiming responsibility for the incident. When asked about the letter, a Malaysian official said, "Yes, there is sound ground to say it is true, but again, we have said from the beginning that we are not taking anything for granted."
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  11. #31
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    They are now reporting that the oil slicks and debris found are not from the plane.

  12. #32

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    How can a plane disapear out of thin air ?
    Are they trying to do Lost in real time ?
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    How can a plane disapear out of thin air ?
    Are they trying to do Lost in real time ?
    I said to Mr. Fridge Break earlier this morning that this sounds a lot like the Oceanic flight 815... scary that this has just disappeared without a trace.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    How can a plane disapear out of thin air ?
    Are they trying to do Lost in real time ?
    Aviation-Safety.net tweeted earlier that it's not unprecedented for a plane to vanish, crash, and not be found for some time afterward. Obviously Malaysia Airlines is a much better and more reputable carrier than AdamAir was, but maybe these cases will prove similar? Both planes were flying in southeast Asia and at the same altitude when they disappeared.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 03-10-2014 at 05:00 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    Zippy can you give an example of when somebody waited to long to claim something so big?

    I can't. It doesn't sit right with terrorism. It's normally claimed within 24 hours to achieve maximum impact and destruction. No one feels particularly terrorised when they think there is every chance it could be an accident!!... At this stage I feel like terrorism is increasingly unlikely. It still can't be ruled out, but if it had been claimed there would be a huge impact on air travel right now, as well as immense fear. Groups don't wait to claim - it lessens the impact.
    When I wrote that I had the Lockerbie bombing and the foiled Bojinka plot in mind, although maybe neither is a great example. I was thinking Lockerbie because the Libyans who are now accepted as having done it never made a claim, although many groups did make false claims of responsibility. But that may not be the best example as there still seems to be some doubt over who did it. In the Bojinka plot (where it was planned to blow up several airliners over the Pacific), the plan was to not announce that they had done it and let the governments try to piece it together. Not a great example either, since it never happened thankfully. But there are many smaller terrorist attacks that go unclaimed indefinitely, and bigger ones that are eventually claimed but not necessarily in a 24-hour window. Actually, it's common that they're claimed later than that. That recent Volgograd bombing was claimed about a month later, for instance. And then there's the issue of false claims which clouds it all further.

    Terrorism doesn't always have a singular purpose - for some, they might want to claim it right away if the motive was to make some demand known or to assert power. If the goal is to hurt the airline industry by making people afraid to fly, they might let the doubt linger whether an accident or terrorism was behind it (both are pretty scary, honestly). Or maybe the goal is to distract the world's attention away from something else (Ukraine crisis?). A more frightening reason why it may not be claimed is if it was a test run for a bigger plot. The Bojinka plot is a good example of this case - they tested their bombs around Manila and on a Philippines Air flight and of course didn't announce their role in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    True, but it's not entirely the same thing. 9/11 was clearly terror. Without anyone claiming this, it seems like an accident, which kind of defeats the purpose of terrorism.
    I would actually think that the uncertainty in this case would make groups less likely to claim responsibility for the moment, because it can't really be taken seriously until there's evidence that terrorism occurred. Too many false claims in the past (such as Al Qaeda claiming the American Airlines crash in Nov. 2001 and the 2003 Northeast blackout even though both were determined to be accidental). It's also worth considering that not all claims are made public, especially not immediately. I actually saw somewhere a Chinese terror group is supposedly claiming responsibility now, but its credibility is considered doubtful, for instance.

    Anyway, this is a wordy way of saying the lack of a claim doesn't necessarily rule out terrorism, and if a claim was made, that wouldn't rule it "in", either, until there's some evidence confirming that.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    How can a plane disapear out of thin air ?
    Are they trying to do Lost in real time ?
    It actually reminds me of the TV show Banacek.

  17. #37
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    It sounds like a dumb question, but is there the remotest possibility that the plane has landed (probably by force) somewhere intact? I would think that an aircraft of this size could only safely land on a runway in an airport or an airfield or something like that, and if that's what has happened, the authorities would be aware of it by now. Or could the plane have landed on some remote swathe of land, so remote that all communication and attempts at signaling would be impossible?

    I guess that I'm just hoping against hope that everyone on board is safe somewhere, and that it's just really hard for the rest of the world to be aware of it right now.

  18. #38
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    I had a similar question. How far can a radar station track a plane? Maybe it was hijacked and the pilots were forced to make a U-turn and then fly "under the radar" to some undisclosed destination.

  19. #39

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    I still don't think it's terrorism. This group who has allegedly claimed responsibility don't seem credible because it seems like an afterthought, like "oh hey, people think there's a chance this might be terrorism so let's advance our cause and say it was us", which I think is your point Zippy? I agree with that.

    The problem is those other instances where no group claimed it for a while, if ever, were clearly terror. This isn't clear at all! If it were terror, whoever was behind it would have some evidence of it, and they'd be able to credibly claim it or to point out that it is terror.

    As things stand, it's estimated that on average, at least one person travels on a stolen passport on every flight in Asia. It's not surprising there were 4-5 of them on one flight booked on consecutive tickets - smuggling is just one criminal activity that operates that way.

    Secondly, the terrorists on the hijacked flights on 9/11 were travelling on their own passports. If they knew they were about to die for a cause, why conceal their identity? It's more likely that the stolen passports were to conceal identity because those people were engaged in ongoing criminal activity.

    Don't forget that people thought Air France could be terror, and it turned out to be catastrophic pilot error. It also took 2 years to recover the black box in that case.

    If the plane did turn around before it went off radar, it's safe to say that it went off course. They may not have found any wreckage because they're not looking in the right place.

    I'll be highly skeptical of any group who claims responsibility for this. If they were behind it, they'd have proof to prove it now why there is uncertainty. Maximum impact is now, or more specifically 3 days ago when claiming it will have meant mass cancelation of international flights. By now, no one would be that surprised if it is terror or an accident and so the maximum impact of it has gone.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinalini View Post
    It sounds like a dumb question, but is there the remotest possibility that the plane has landed (probably by force) somewhere intact? I would think that an aircraft of this size could only safely land on a runway in an airport or an airfield or something like that, and if that's what has happened, the authorities would be aware of it by now. Or could the plane have landed on some remote swathe of land, so remote that all communication and attempts at signaling would be impossible?

    I guess that I'm just hoping against hope that everyone on board is safe somewhere, and that it's just really hard for the rest of the world to be aware of it right now.
    No. It would have shown up on radar.

    If it went into the sea more or less in one piece it would have sunk by now...making it much more difficult to find. The most important piece of debris they need to find are the black boxes, before their battery runs out.

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