Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819
Results 361 to 375 of 375
  1. #361

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,962
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7850
    Anybody who's read Tom Clancy's submarine warfare novels got a bit of an education in how sounds transfer through the layers of water temperature and salinity. I assume they're involving some really good scientists/engineers familiar with these issues.

    So tough on the the families.

  2. #362

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    In my own little fantasy world where life is perfect for me!
    Posts
    5,837
    vCash
    4511
    Rep Power
    10351
    Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?

  3. #363

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,311
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    41317
    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?
    The plane that ditched in the Hudson was a controlled landing. It had pilots and they were manipulating flaps and lowering speeds and doing all those things that slow a plane down for landing - hence the gentle landing.

    A plane that ran out of fuel in mid-air with no pilots to save it would stall and eventually tumble out of the sky, because there is no one to control it, no-one to deploy flaps and slats and kick the rudder and keep her level. What you hope could happen if the pilots were in control. If they were not, the plane would have tumbled out of the sky at considerable pieces and smashed to smithereens when it hit the ocean.

    Remember too that we are talking about one of the roughest, nastiest areas of the ocean. Anything that stayed on the surface wouldn't have for long.

  4. #364

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,759
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    Really stupid question but ..... so lets say the plane flew on autopilot until it completely drains all fuel. What happens at that point? Does the plane continue to glide on its set course and just slowly descend and almost come to a skid across the water (like that plane in NYC did) with maybe minimal damage done to the fuselage and it just slowly sunk? Or would it take a nose dive and drop out of the sky like a rock and crash into the ocean and break apart into pieces? Its just so weird that they still have not found any type of wreckage at all. No seats, suitcases, clothes, purses and all the other carry-on stuff that would be in the cabin. Unless there was wreckage early on but by this time (and if they are even looking in the right place), it all just became water logged and sunk already?
    Like misskarne wrote, it would eventually stall and go in the water. I don't know if it would go into a phugoid cycle - climbing and then diving - before crashing. If a plane experiences fuel starvation with pilots controlling it, however, they can glide for some distance and they have an air turbine for some very basic functions. This happened to an Air Transat flight over the Atlantic back in 2001, but they were fortunately near enough an emergency landing location and were able to glide successfully and land in the Azores with no loss of life.

    The Hudson landing was about the best circumstances you could hope for in a water landing - a relatively calm, straight body of water with lots of resources in the vicinity to help the survivors. Since Ethiopian 961 was discussed earlier in the thread, here's what a (relatively) controlled landing looks like in somewhat rougher conditions - and that's not even close to what conditions would be like far from land and in the southern Indian Ocean.

    Whatever was on the surface following the crash likely sunk or was carried away with the currents.

  5. #365

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,311
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    41317
    I also meant to add, once the engines have shut down, the electrics on the plane start shutting down. They have a small reserve, but not enough to run the autopilot for much longer. So there would be nothing trying to hold the plane level.

  6. #366

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    In my own little fantasy world where life is perfect for me!
    Posts
    5,837
    vCash
    4511
    Rep Power
    10351
    Thanks. Its all just so sad for those families. I hope they do eventually find the plane just for their own peace.

  7. #367

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,311
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    41317
    ABC News reporting that one of the RAAF P3 Orions has picked up a signal in the same area that the Ocean Shield device has picked up signals.

    Could the batteries still be alive on those black boxes? It seems incredible...

  8. #368

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,311
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    41317
    PRIME MINISTER TONY ABBOTT PRESS CONFERENCE AT 1:45PM AEST (half an hour from now)

    The talk is that he will announce they've found the black box!

    I have to go back to work, won't see it.

  9. #369
    From the Bloc
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    California, I wish
    Posts
    17,363
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11617
    Here is a report on the Australian PM's statement today.

    I had wondered why the PM was taking such an active role in this - yes it's all in the spirit of helping out in a crisis and the proximity of the search to Australia makes it natural for the country to offer its resources, but is it normal for a head of state to take the lead role when it's not his airline, it's not his search, the bulk of the passengers were not Australian nationals (were there any?) and the target area, while closer to Australia than any other country, isn't on their soil or in their immediate waters?

    Now I see what may very well be the motivation - it's political, and it's economic. The article linked says it's "Australia in China" week, no doubt to promote trade. At the same time I heard from a friend this morning who does business in Malaysia that they are hurting - the country relies heavily on Chinese business and tourism, and the way the plane's disappearance has been handled is turning China and its people against Malaysia in a big way. Perhaps the PM of Australia saw an opportunity here - I'm sure it's also with good intent, but in the longer term, this could be a massive step in the two countries' relations - politically and economically, as well as from a PR standpoint.

  10. #370

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,019
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    13073
    Updated news - interesting development, but still no sign of the missing plane

    http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-1226904710382
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-f...1.html#7X8h2yT
    'The one. The only. Daisuke Takahashi ' Chris Howarth, EurosportUK

  11. #371
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/28/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

    The four pings that were detected 7 weeks ago and formed the primary focus for the extensive underwater search of the missing plane are now considered to not have been made by the plane's black boxes at all. Um...alrighty then.

  12. #372
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    30,123
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34921
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  13. #373

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    8,519
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7854
    Saw something about the pings were caused by the very ships that were searching...

  14. #374
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Herot
    Posts
    3,492
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    From three weeks ago, and not specifically about the black boxes: Why the Official Explanation of MH370’s Demise Doesn’t Hold Up: Outside satellite experts say investigators could be looking in the wrong ocean.

    Authorities have treated the conclusion that the plane crashed in the ocean west of Australia as definitive, owing to a much-vaunted mathematical analysis of satellite signals sent by the plane. But scientists and engineers outside of the investigation have been working to verify that analysis, and many say that it just doesn’t hold up.

  15. #375

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,527
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42165
    If anyone is withholding actual information about this tragedy, it's time to make it known.

Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •