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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinami Amori View Post
    Here is an analysis of "what it really was" from Adam Leib, a coach and national technical specialist for U.S. Figure Skating:

    How Sotnikova Beat Kim, Move by Move
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ting.html?_r=0
    PCS??

  2. #162
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    The technical scoring was not remotedly right either. Sotnikova was overscored about an average of +1 GOE per element, and Kim purposely underscored by an average of +1 per element. Think how many points difference that already makes. Then Sotnikova should have gotten edge calls on both lutzes, a downgrade on her triple lutz-triple toe at the end, and not been given level 4 footwork sequences while Kim should have. Sotnikova would already be thrashed by Kostner and Kim just changing the TES fairly, and the scary thing if we haven't even started on PCS. Would Sotnikova even keep her bronze once we get into that?

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoncerocks View Post
    The technical scoring was not remotedly right either. Sotnikova was overscored about an average of +1 GOE per element, and Kim purposely underscored by an average of +1 per element. Think how many points difference that already makes. Then Sotnikova should have gotten edge calls on both lutzes, a downgrade on her triple lutz-triple toe at the end, and not been given level 4 footwork sequences while Kim should have. Sotnikova would already be thrashed by Kostner and Kim just changing the TES fairly, and the scary thing if we haven't even started on PCS. Would Sotnikova even keep her bronze once we get into that?
    And you're an international technical specialist with all of the necessary qualifications, are you?

    Kim did not skate her best that night - there were a couple of landings that were a bit wobbly. She skated with no passion, no emotion, like she was just going through the motions (PCS hit). GET OVER IT.

    And yes, okay, they were in Russia, and there was a bit of a bump up for the home skaters. THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN JAPAN, USA, CANADA, EVERYWHERE, and I don't see endless threads whinging about that.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN JAPAN, USA, CANADA, EVERYWHERE, and I don't see endless threads whinging about that.
    You missed all the about Chanflation?

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoncerocks View Post
    New people always emerge. The Russian fed. probably sense the huge swell of negavity around Sotnikova and will probably wisely promote Julia and Elena R. above her by next year, and there will likely be many others coming up the pipeline of the Russian supergirls after them.
    The "huge swell of negativity" is only happening on boards like this & only from biased posters. Who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world. And if you think the Russian Fed (or any fed for that matter) who would promote an up-and-coming skater over their own OGM, then you must not know much about skating politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    You missed all the about Chanflation?
    Yes, but that happens on every continent.

    BTW, for those who are saying Ashley skated well & deserved better than 7th, yes, she skated well for her. But just because she didn't fall down doesn't mean she didn't have any technical flaws. I thought the placement of the top 10 ladies were correct except for Julia Lip who was boosted in both the short & long.

  6. #166
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    Well, I was very excited to see Adelina come out with such energy and excitement, explosive jumps and amazing confidence and consistency for her, to simply light up the sp. I admire Yu Na and Mao for many reasons, but I was not looking forward to another Olympic showdown between them. They are both talented and wonderful veterans, but Yu Na seemed to be just going thru the motions, without any of the determined fire she displayed at last year's Worlds. Mao has been receiving huge scores for some flawed technique in programs for the last two seasons, so unfortunately it all caught up with her in Sochi. It was sad to see her falter so badly in the sp, but she responded like a determined champion in the fp. I rooted for Mao in Vancouver, but not as much recently. Still I admire her courage and her heart.

    Carolina was underscored on PCS in the team event, but a bit of nerves had her tight on some of her jumps during singles fp, so it was a victory for her to medal especially without a program chock full of difficult jump technique. When it comes to class, grace, beauty, maturity and superbly delivered choreography, of course Carolina is golden. Too bad Olympics didn't take place in Italy, eh?

    But, oh well, since it was obvious the home team wanted to push thru not just for the podium, but for gold for a Russian lady, I was relieved that it was the more talented Sotnikova rather than the over-hyped Julia L. Possibly, Radionova will be better than both Adelina and Julia, if she is given the chance to develop into a complete skater.

    Most of all, Ashley needed to believe in herself more this season and have a stronger fp. Apparently she lost some confidence with Nicks retiring, and the break with Mills did not help matters. Overall, Ashley handled those challenges well, and she had a good GP season but seemed to be losing ground with her confidence as the season progressed, while Gracie was being groomed to shine.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 03-11-2014 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #167
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    We will see if Adelina turns into Elena Davidova (testing skating fans' knowledge of Gymnastics here ) - Olympic Champ, but nothing else to follow.

  8. #168
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    Davydova was exquisite. Adelina is far from.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    ^so are you suggesting they should have overscored Wagner based on "confidence" that she can do a trick that she failed to execute in the moment? Do I have this right?

    Do we want or not want reputation judging? Or should it only apply to our favorites? Can't have it both ways...

    ETA: I should point out that the blatant over scoring of Flatt at 2010 Nationals didn't help her case in Vancouver...
    I was not a big fan of Rachael Flatt, and I felt USFS often over-rewarded her which came back to bite all involved eventually. But also pretty cruel how they completely dropped Rachael after the infamous Worlds debacle.

    Doesn't really matter how fans want it 're our faves. When it comes to fs, our hearts will be broken time and time again. The inherent politics and uneven and often unfair scoring in fs is legendary. We could talk for days about the peculiar scoring in ladies event at U.S. Nats, this year and last, but let's not. Suffice to say, they score how they will anyway, so why not give better and more deserving PCS to an internationally recognized skater who is expected and indeed preferred to make the team. I think Polina's PCS were overdone, and it was obvious at least IMO that US powers that be were more interested in simply putting some distance in the sp between Gracie and Ashley in particular and rest of the field in general than they were in actually rewarding Mirai, who they viciously disregarded post-event.

    Maybe fans can never have it both ways, but heck, TPTB sure can. In fact they can have it six ways to Sunday and spin results till they're set in stone.

    I am a fan of Ashley and Gracie, BTW. Indeed, I enjoyed watching all the U.S. ladies this season.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 03-11-2014 at 11:40 PM.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    We will see if Adelina turns into Elena Davidova (testing skating fans' knowledge of Gymnastics here ) - Olympic Champ, but nothing else to follow.
    Davydova won an event medal on all of bars, beam, and floor at the 80 Games or 81 Worlds, and won another AA medal at the 81 Worlds, so I wouldnt say she followed with nothing. Although I hope I am wrong my best guess on Sotnikova is she will truly pan out as a 1 hit wonder, and would be lucky to have a Davydova like follow up to her big win.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world.
    With all due respect you must be living under a rock or in a coma if you really believe this (and I say that as someone who doesnt even agree with the blown out controversy). It is funny you are the same poster who called Poetzsch-Fratianne, Kerrigan vs Baiul in 94, Lipinski winning in 98, and Hughes in 2002 as major controversies and insisted I was wrong when I grouped all those as minor or merely debated decisions. Do you honestly believe those are more talked about in "most of the world" than this. Absolute delusion to the highest order if you actually do.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 03-11-2014 at 11:58 PM.

  12. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Kim did not skate her best that night - there were a couple of landings that were a bit wobbly. .
    What landings were wobbly? The only slight error I saw was the scratchy, toe-picky landing on her second triple Lutz.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    What landings were wobbly? The only slight error I saw was the scratchy, toe-picky landing on her second triple Lutz.
    that's correct..

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    Yikes, I'm afraid Adelina v. Yuna is the new Oksana v. Nancy. Let's. Rehash. Every. Single. Biased. Point. Over. And. Over.

    Anyways, 99.9% of the world doesn't care who won the ladies OGM. Maybe South Korea, FSU, and Ashley Wagner. That's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ...Suffice to say, they score how they will anyway, so why not give better and more deserving PCS to an internationally recognized skater who is expected and indeed preferred to make the team. I think Polina's PCS were overdone, and it was obvious at least IMO that US powers that be were more interested in simply putting some distance in the sp between Gracie and Ashley in particular and rest of the field in general than they were in actually rewarding Mirai, who they viciously disregarded post-event.
    I have a better idea - if they were so bent on AW on the team, then nominate her BEFORE the event based on the strength of her season up to that point. Then judge Nationals by what is actually put out on the ice. I give them credit for not holding Wagner up because they easily could have done. (Not that there wouldn't have been an outcry, of course - see 2013.)

    Anyway, no use rehashing that thing again. What's done is done, and hopefully they can make it clearer for everyone moving forward.
    Last edited by RD; 03-12-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    With all due respect you must be living under a rock or in a coma if you really believe this (and I say that as someone who doesnt even agree with the blown out controversy). It is funny you are the same poster who called Poetzsch-Fratianne, Kerrigan vs Baiul in 94, Lipinski winning in 98, and Hughes in 2002 as major controversies and insisted I was wrong when I grouped all those as minor or merely debated decisions. Do you honestly believe those are more talked about in "most of the world" than this. Absolute delusion to the highest order if you actually do.
    Gee, it doesn't read as respect.

    As you know, when I mentioned those other controversies I was speaking of controversies within the skating community. The poster I was answering was acting like the big buzz in world news is still Adelina's win. It's been at least 2 weeks since I've seen any of the Oly skating news mentioned anywhere except skating boards. So I guess I've been living under a rock. When I open my browser or pick up a newspaper I don't see one word about skating. I do see news about Ukraine & about the missing Malaysia plane. I don't see "a huge swell of negativity". The closest thing I've seen about skating news is the fact that Meryl & Charlie are going to be on Dancing With The Stars.

    BTW I still believe that who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world. I don't know one person in RL who gives a sh**.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfahrut View Post
    Sotnikova had better posture when she was in juniors. Then she grew and got the kind of choreo we saw at Oly. I think she is capable of much better but nobody pushed her to work on it. Or like Tarasova said in interview it's their view of modern skating.
    I happen to love both of Adelina's programs, especially her LP. To each his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by beyoncerocks View Post
    You wont ever see Sotnikova compete again. She doesn't want her win to get exposed for what it really was.
    You know best of course with that crystal ball. Melodramatic much?

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    We will see if Adelina turns into Elena Davidova (testing skating fans' knowledge of Gymnastics here ) - Olympic Champ, but nothing else to follow.
    Davidova won AA bronze at Worlds the year after the Moscow Games. Top 3 after the Olympics is nothing to sneeze at.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Gee, it doesn't read as respect.

    As you know, when I mentioned those other controversies I was speaking of controversies within the skating community. The poster I was answering was acting like the big buzz in world news is still Adelina's win. It's been at least 2 weeks since I've seen any of the Oly skating news mentioned anywhere except skating boards. So I guess I've been living under a rock. When I open my browser or pick up a newspaper I don't see one word about skating. I do see news about Ukraine & about the missing Malaysia plane. I don't see "a huge swell of negativity". The closest thing I've seen about skating news is the fact that Meryl & Charlie are going to be on Dancing With The Stars.

    BTW I still believe that who won the ladies OGM is a non-story for most of the world. I don't know one person in RL who gives a sh**.
    even if an american is involved with this whole ogm thingy.. no one really gives a crap about figure skating.. if you ask anyone outside of the fs community about the whole ogm judging they will say.. "hmmm.. what else is new?"

  19. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy void View Post
    Yikes, I'm afraid Adelina v. Yuna is the new Oksana v. Nancy. Let's. Rehash. Every. Single. Biased. Point. Over. And. Over.
    I don't see the similarity. Oksana versus Nancy is athletic versus artistic - and wooden versus charming, in this case - which it pretty much always come down to in these debates. The argument is always that the person/team with lesser technical content was more artistic or had a more complicated program.

    Adelina v. Yuna does not come down to that. Adelina's tech base was less than 2 points above Yuna's and she had a step-out. Yuna is technically textbook perfect. Her spins are not the best, perhaps not as good as Adelina's, but her landings are usually a thing of beauty. Adelina's landings were not quite so fluid.

    And there really isn't much of a case to be made that Adelina is more artistic than Yuna. Yes, she was more emotionally expressive than Yuna and skated with more attack. But those two qualities do not equal artistic superiority. Mae Berenice skated with amazing attack and emotional expression too. So did the Italian lady. So did Ryan Bradley when he (questionably, in the minds of many) won Nationals.

    Although Yuna is not emotionally expressive, she has the natural gift of pure grace and is far more aesthetically appealing than Adelina. Her long limbs help, but body type does give skaters an advantage/disadvantage, like it or not.

    If you watch her entire body when she skates and don't focus on her face, every movement is art on ice. She ticks off all the boxes. The only PCS box in contention is the Performance part of Performance/Execution.

    I say this as one who was never a Yuna fan and did not want her to just show up and retake the Olympic title. But credit should be given where credit is due. I never cared for Sasha Cohen, either, but not a ladies competition goes by when I don't wish someone would do a spiral to rival Sasha's.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 03-12-2014 at 08:07 AM.

  20. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Yuna is technically textbook perfect.
    I'll admit, ladies is my least favorite discipline, so the Olympic result isn't nearly as scandalous to me as to some others. But...

    Didn't Yuna have a pretty noticeable UR on her 2nd triple lutz, not to mention one less triple?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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