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  1. #141
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    One could argue 5th for Wagner - that's where I would have had her - but the top 3 were correct (as Wagner herself readily admits). That is, in terms of SKATERS, not PLACEMENT.

    I wonder whether it was Sotnikova's choice to sit out Worlds. In any case, her scores in Sochi were too high and that hurts her, too, since the scores imply that there's little (if anything) to work on moving forward. But at the same time, she'll be fighting off tons of upstarts at her own Nationals, so we'll have to see...

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Ashley skated better than a few people placed in front of her at Sochi. I think she deserved to be higher than seventh place. Totally agree with going with your own perceptions and opinions which doesn't negate often agreeing and sometimes not agreeing with those out there commenting on figure skating. Kudos to those commenting and providing their insights on figure skating. Not enough outlets for that in the U.S. I appreciate hearing as much commentary about figure skating as I can find.

    As far as Adelina, she was on fire, and determined not to be out done by Julia L. Snubbed for the team event, Adelina didn't let the opportunity to light up the singles event in her home country pass her by. Granted both Adelina and Julia (especially) received home-cooking scores, particularly on PCS. But, ain't that figure skating!?

    If it had to be a Russian lady winning it all (and apparently in Sochi, it had to be), much better Adelina (who is a bit older, a better jumper, and has more potential) than Julia, IMHO! OTOH, too bad winning it all might just stifle Adelina from actually fulfilling her potential to become a more complete skater. But once again, that's figure skating, especially these days.

    The Russian ladies have a lot of talent, but not so much more than Gracie and many other ladies skaters including veterans and up-and-comers. All the Russian ladies could benefit from some Frank Carroll skate whispering advice (especially in the area of costuming).
    Interesting post. I have no doubt Gracie can beat Adelina and Julia in PRACTICE skates. Please wake me up if she ever outskates them both when the lights are turned all the way up.

    Ashley is a "legend in her own mind." Her one big trick she just missed for what - the 5th or 6th time in a row when the lights were shining? Maybe her fans should chip in and buy the girl a nice pair of sunglasses.
    Sponsors won't stick with the girl who came in 7th at the Olympics and if she doesn't finally medal at Worlds US Skating will dump her like yesterday's news.

  3. #143
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    Ashley deserved 4th place at these Games, just off the podium. Unfortunately she was not part of anyones agenda, and the results at these games especialy in the ladies had nothing to do with skating, only agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    Interesting post. I have no doubt Gracie can beat Adelina and Julia in PRACTICE skates. Please wake me up if she ever outskates them both when the lights are turned all the way up.
    She already did outskate and outplace Julia in the Olympic individual event, in both the short program and free skate, and she's beaten Adelina before at 2012 Junior Worlds, 2012 Rostelecom Cup, and 2013 Worlds. I think those are the only times they've met in competition aside from the Olympics, so Gracie's 3-1 against her overall.

    Time to wake up, MrLucky!

  5. #145
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    I think Sotnikova is not competing because of the demands on her time as Olympic gold medalist and skating in a show. She doesn't have any prior experience in winning a major senior title, including how to re-focus quickly for another major event, let alone how to do it with so much media coverage. Even were she to go to Worlds and not do as well as she did in Sochi, skating- or placement-wise, I don't think that would prove anything about the scoring in Sochi.


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  6. #146
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    Ashley is a "legend in her own mind." Her one big trick she just missed for what - the 5th or 6th time in a row when the lights were shining?
    That is an interesting note - IIRC, her 3-3 has failed to materialize at just about every major event - Worlds, Olympics (almost...), etc...

    Even then, she'd still be barely cracking 130 at her very best (not too shabby BTW). She might need a "Lepisto" stroke of luck if she ever hopes to medal. However, US skating still needs her if it wants to keep 3 spots for next year...

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    Interesting post. I have no doubt Gracie can beat Adelina and Julia in PRACTICE skates. Please wake me up if she ever outskates them both when the lights are turned all the way up.

    Ashley is a "legend in her own mind." Her one big trick she just missed for what - the 5th or 6th time in a row when the lights were shining? Maybe her fans should chip in and buy the girl a nice pair of sunglasses.
    Sponsors won't stick with the girl who came in 7th at the Olympics and if she doesn't finally medal at Worlds US Skating will dump her like yesterday's news.
    Can you possibly be any more bitter about Ashley going to the Olympics? Good grief, this shtick is getting really old...
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    She already did outskate and outplace Julia in the Olympic individual event, in both the short program and free skate, and she's beaten Adelina before at 2012 Junior Worlds, 2012 Rostelecom Cup, and 2013 Worlds. I think those are the only times they've met in competition aside from the Olympics, so Gracie's 3-1 against her overall.

    Time to wake up, MrLucky!
    You are right, I must have been sleeping. Anyway, if Gracie can really bring it at Worlds she has a good chance to medal. She needs to skate a better SP than she did in Sochi.

  9. #149

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    if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    That is an interesting note - IIRC, her 3-3 has failed to materialize at just about every major event - Worlds, Olympics (almost...), etc...

    Even then, she'd still be barely cracking 130 at her very best (not too shabby BTW). She might need a "Lepisto" stroke of luck if she ever hopes to medal. However, US skating still needs her if it wants to keep 3 spots for next year...
    You left out 2014 Natls.

    Wonder how certain judges will look at Ashley after she basically accused them of cheating in Sochi.

    It's one thing for Yuna to call the scoring "absurd." She is not only a great skater but has retired and won't be at Worlds.

    Ashley on the other hand might not be getting any favors from the judges after remarks she made about "accountability" and getting "gypped."

    It would be nice if she is scored fairly but nothing in skating surprises me much anymore.

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Ashley deserved 4th place at these Games, just off the podium. Unfortunately she was not part of anyones agenda, and the results at these games especialy in the ladies had nothing to do with skating, only agenda.
    I'll grant you Julia probably should have been behind her although she has much cleaner jumps (and in my mind more appealing programs) than Ashley. But that would be 6th place, not 4th. Are you saying you think Ashley skated better than Mao & Gracie?

    Thanks for the laugh.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Are you saying you think Ashley skated better than Mao & Gracie?

    I think in the SP at least, a case could be made for Ashley

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    I think in the SP at least, a case could be made for Ashley
    Ashley skated very well in both programs but missing her opening 3x3 probably effected her overall score and not just that specific element.
    You won't see that in the rulebook but it seems a real enough way to hold a skater down.

    It is easy for certain fans to prefer Ashleys' more dramatic style over Gracie's retro Princess style.

    But style is not the determining factor. It's the points that matter and who can rack up the most points will be most successful in the current system.

    Does IJS even claim the system accurately determines who is the best skater?
    I think it claims the skater who scores the most points wins. Is that always accurate or at times even credible?

    Julia made two big mistakes in the LP and Ashley made one big mistake.
    Other than that who scored the most points?

    I think it is a valid argument for some to say "Ashley outskated Julia" but this system is a more about quantity than quality. Right now that seems to be true whether one is discussing the tech or the components.

  14. #154
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    Indeed, Ashley skated well in both Olympic programs, and decently well in the team event too. She clearly deserved better than 7th overall in ladies singles. All this nitpicking about Ashley. I guess I must have missed the nitpicking about Julia L being given humongous scores for her singles event mistakes, especially for PCS! Reminds me of that new tv show that was being excessively promoted during the Olympics: Believe. As if you guys don't know already, it's about a young girl with special powers who requires protection by an ex-con against all the baddies trying to kidnap her. Guess the network was promoting the show during commercial breaks to the right demographic what with everyone going goo-goo ga-ga over Julia L during the Olympic figure skating team event. Yep, the message seems to be that little girls are gonna save the world with their prepubescent powers.

    Thanks for Carolina and Yu Na, and Mao, and Akiko, and Ashley too. Yes, Ashley did some wimping out at Nats after hard work and success during the tough GP season. But honestly, since USFS knew they wanted Ash on the team, why not cut some slack for her minor sp bobble -- she proved during the season that she could land the 3/3. Why not at least give Ashley a vote of confidence for the sp and reward her for her maturity? If she'd at least been granted better PCS and placed third in Nats sp, then maybe she might have hung tougher for the fp. Sending Ash wounded to the Olympics ensured the ISU judges were gonna look on her no matter how well she skated, kinda like they did on Johnny at Vancouver Olympics. And oops, I almost forgot that it is prepubescent teenagers the skating world and the world at large tend to be more tempted by and fixated on. I say, Let the young teenagers grow up, at least a little. Growing up a little more under Frank's tutelage sure has done wonders for Gracie Gold (granted she's fast approaching over-the-hill in skating years, in terms of how the judges seem to be judging lately. ).

  15. #155
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    ^so are you suggesting they should have overscored Wagner based on "confidence" that she can do a trick that she failed to execute in the moment? Do I have this right?

    Do we want or not want reputation judging? Or should it only apply to our favorites? Can't have it both ways...

    ETA: I should point out that the blatant over scoring of Flatt at 2010 Nationals didn't help her case in Vancouver...
    Last edited by RD; 03-11-2014 at 07:35 PM.

  16. #156
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    You wont ever see Sotnikova compete again. She doesn't want her win to get exposed for what it really was.

  17. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoncerocks View Post
    She doesn't want her win to get exposed for what it really was.
    Here is an analysis of "what it really was" from Adam Leib, a coach and national technical specialist for U.S. Figure Skating:

    How Sotnikova Beat Kim, Move by Move
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ting.html?_r=0

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I think Sotnikova is not competing because of the demands on her time as Olympic gold medalist and skating in a show. She doesn't have any prior experience in winning a major senior title, including how to re-focus quickly for another major event, let alone how to do it with so much media coverage. Even were she to go to Worlds and not do as well as she did in Sochi, skating- or placement-wise, I don't think that would prove anything about the scoring in Sochi.
    I agree with this. She's got a lot on her plate right now, and doing a quick turn around might not be in her best interest -- there is always next year. I say let her enjoy all the good things that come from the win, and enjoy them without the pressure of Worlds being around the corner.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoncerocks View Post
    You wont ever see Sotnikova compete again. She doesn't want her win to get exposed for what it really was.
    That would be silly. With Yu-Na, Carolina and probably Mao leaving next season, Adelina is perfectly positioned to be one of the top ladies in this post-Sochi era of skaters. Prior to her win in Sochi Adelina was one of the top (if not the top) "newbies" in the field. With the Olympic experience in her pocket, she has the green light to move forward and continue to compete as one of the top names in the sport.

    It's up to her though. After getting the top prize she'll have to find motivation to continue to skate. Hopefully she'll find it.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    That would be silly. With Yu-Na, Carolina and probably Mao leaving next season, Adelina is perfectly positioned to be one of the top ladies in this post-Sochi era of skaters. Prior to her win in Sochi Adelina was one of the top (if not the top) "newbies" in the field. With the Olympic experience in her pocket, she has the green light to move forward and continue to compete as one of the top names in the sport.

    It's up to her though. After getting the top prize she'll have to find motivation to continue to skate. Hopefully she'll find it.
    New people always emerge. The Russian fed. probably sense the huge swell of negavity around Sotnikova and will probably wisely promote Julia and Elena R. above her by next year, and there will likely be many others coming up the pipeline of the Russian supergirls after them.

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