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  1. #121

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    You're right MrLucky. I had forgotten the details.

  2. #122
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    Sorry I was just joking!!! Far from me willing anything bad to anyone! I just had this gut feeling he would have withdrawn... fake or no fake injury Same feeling I had watching his short program at last year Euros...

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    The only claim I would make is that if you consider Ashley Wagner's PCS vs Lip & Sot on the GP and then at the Olys, Ashley has at least some ground to claim she was somewhat [substitute politically correct term].
    But Wagner skated better during the Grand Prix Series than either Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya and they skated better than her at the Olympics - I think all the PCS rose as the season approached the Olympics and had Wagner delivered she would have been rewarded.
    When watching live I like everyone to skate clean - but on television the occasional trainwreck can be fun.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I think you are forgetting a lot of the controversies. Potzsch's win was a huge controversy, and probably not just in the US. She should not have beat Linda in the free. It was widely suspected that her win was a trade-off for Cousins' win over Jan Hoffman. And Hughes' placement in the short counts as a controversy. I may be biased, but then I hated just about everything about her skating. And I don't know how Baiul's win could be called a minor controversy since the debate rages on to this day.
    Not a fan of Sarah Hughes at all but again does anyone talk about Hughes having a controvrsial victory outside of a place like FSU. Not that I am aware of. Other than the Russian fed protest I cant remember a single thing said about her win. Even her short program placing, which I strongly disagreed with, didnt ruffle any feathers outside of a few internet forums, and mostly that only after she won the gold.

    As for Potzsch she did not beat Fratianne in the long program which Fratianne was placed convincingly ahead of Potzsch. She was even further behind in the short program. Potzsch won since she was much better in figures like many others of the time won that way. The only people I ever hear talking about it are Americans so it gives the impression it is only an American controversy. Maybe if I were around in 1980 I would see a different perspective.

    Kerrigan vs Baiul is still debated to this day but my definition of a major controversy is when many people (including experts) seem downright angry about a result around the world, which is the case with Sotnikova and Kim. Also when a strong majority disagrees which again is the case with Kim and Sotnikova. I dont think this is the case with Baiul vs Kerrigan.

  5. #125

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    controversy (ˈkɒntrəˌvɜːsɪ, kənˈtrɒvəsɪ) —n, pl-sies: dispute, argument, or debate, esp one concerning a matter about which there is strong disagreement ...

    Does it matter where the controversy happens? There are hundreds if not thousands of FS boards, & since many of the debates continue to this day then I think we can safely say they were controversial. I don't really care what non-fans have to say - within the skating community the examples I gave are/were controversial. The fact that people have moved on & lived their lives have nothing to do with it.

    As for Linda & Annett, MrLucky already reminded me that Annett didn't win the free skating. I had forgotten that they buried her in the figures. But I was around in 1980 so I do see a different perspective.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Not a fan of Sarah Hughes at all but again does anyone talk about Hughes having a controvrsial victory outside of a place like FSU. Not that I am aware of. Other than the Russian fed protest I cant remember a single thing said about her win. Even her short program placing, which I strongly disagreed with, didnt ruffle any feathers outside of a few internet forums, and mostly that only after she won the gold.

    As for Potzsch she did not beat Fratianne in the long program which Fratianne was placed convincingly ahead of Potzsch. She was even further behind in the short program. Potzsch won since she was much better in figures like many others of the time won that way. The only people I ever hear talking about it are Americans so it gives the impression it is only an American controversy. Maybe if I were around in 1980 I would see a different perspective.

    Kerrigan vs Baiul is still debated to this day but my definition of a major controversy is when many people (including experts) seem downright angry about a result around the world, which is the case with Sotnikova and Kim. Also when a strong majority disagrees which again is the case with Kim and Sotnikova. I dont think this is the case with Baiul vs Kerrigan.
    The morning after the ladies LP in Lillehamer, I did listen to non-skating radio DJs in the US being like 'WTF' in re Baiul v. Kerrigan. Most of them were following skating at that time only because of the whack heard 'round the world. They definitely weren't skating fans and it was more puzzlement than anger. I don't think Nancy generated 'passion' the way Yu Na does, so this might be a huge reason for the drama at the moment.

    IMO, the controversy in Lake Placid '80 centers around Linda's marks in the Figures (may have been too low - will never know) and Annett's marks in the SP (too high)

  7. #127
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    I would have to see footage of the figures to form an opinion. Do I trust Frank Carrol who has always been heavily biased in favor of his own skaters (be that Fratianne, Bowman, Kwan, Lysacek, Nagasu, and now Gold, and his Fratianne bias was about triple anyone else since which even he admited calling her like his own daugher in his heart). Hell no. When it comes to the 88 Olympics for instance I did see footage of Witt doing her figures, and Ivanova doing her first, so am far more sure something fishy was up there.

    I do think the scoring of Hoffmann in the mens LP which allowed Cousins to come from way behind and win was quite harsh though. That is the one thing that would give some credence to the rumored mens-womens switch.

  8. #128

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    Oksana vs Nancy was certainly hotly debated, and would have been much worse had Nancy been more liked (in addition to Oksana having a more enjoyable free skate and the orphan backstory to root for).

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I do think the scoring of Hoffmann in the mens LP which allowed Cousins to come from way behind and win was quite harsh though. That is the one thing that would give some credence to the rumored mens-womens switch.
    Is there any particular reason why they would prefer a women's gold though?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    I wonder how many liberal westerners hate Adelina because she crosses herself before she skates? I remember complaints in 1994 about Oksana Baiul also showing her Christianity by crossing herself before skating. I hope that some liberals aren't also taking it out on Adelina for showing her religion. Everybody should be free to express his/her religion on the ice.

    Same thing about V/T's 'Jesus' program. Guess what? Jesus won. So did Adelina.
    I'm about the biggest science junky, religion is up there with unicorns liberal, and I didn't even notice she crossed herself. That's how little I care apparently.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I would have to see footage of the figures to form an opinion. Do I trust Frank Carrol who has always been heavily biased in favor of his own skaters (be that Fratianne, Bowman, Kwan, Lysacek, Nagasu, and now Gold, and his Fratianne bias was about triple anyone else since which even he admited calling her like his own daugher in his heart). Hell no. When it comes to the 88 Olympics for instance I did see footage of Witt doing her figures, and Ivanova doing her first, so am far more sure something fishy was up there.

    I do think the scoring of Hoffmann in the mens LP which allowed Cousins to come from way behind and win was quite harsh though. That is the one thing that would give some credence to the rumored mens-womens switch.
    The attachment between Frank and Linda was very tight - I remember seeing the two of them at an ISI/PSA convention in 2001 in Las Vegas and she was pretty much attached to his hip at all times (that's not a criticism or sarcasm, they were just always together and were obviously very close).
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  12. #132
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    [QUOTE=ks777;4199526]Actually Sarah is pretty attractive. Plus she had much better posture than Adelina.[/QUOTE]

    That's quite an achievement.

  13. #133
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    I hope Adelina continues so, as others stated, she can mature as a skater, win Euros and Worlds, and go out with a gold in all 3 events ( E + W + Oly ) - now that' retiring in style. She's too young to stop now!

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Slutskaya on her best day was a better skater than Arakawa, even if Shizuka was arguably more rounded. The only time Shizuka ever performed at a level (or beyond) of Irina on a good day was the 2004 Worlds. Irina with any of her performances the past 18 months minus 2005 Europeans would have won the OGM over Shizuka, and that was Shizukas 2nd best ever competition.
    Can we stop throwing these empty claims around without so much as an explanation or supporting argument? Arakawa had amazing skating skills and her carriage and lines were much better than Slutskaya. What's your reasoning for Irina being better skater?

    I also find it very funny that everybody seems to be criticizing Sotnikova's posture now that she's won the OGM. For the longest time she was praised for her beautiful lines and elegance on the ice and I could never understand why.

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    Shiz did indeed have amazing skating skills. Those edges are to die for. I could watch her just stroke around the ice all day. I also loved Shiz's understated elegance and flow. The only gripe I have about her is that her 3-3s were often underrotated. Don't know if that was also the case with Irina.

  16. #136
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    Sotnikova had better posture when she was in juniors. Then she grew and got the kind of choreo we saw at Oly. I think she is capable of much better but nobody pushed her to work on it. Or like Tarasova said in interview it's their view of modern skating.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Downgraded? Were V/T downgraded as well? Or just listed there in case they change their mind (which I think is the more likely case). No downgrade, if anything- it's a benefit of being a gold medalists for Russia.

    I don't think V/T or Adelina are alternates in the "if someone gets hurt, we'll be there" case. I think they are alternates in the "they don't plan to go, but if they change their mind, we are pulling one of our skaters" sense.
    Do you mean in the Vladmir Putin-, we don't even have to name a definite team until the last minute because there are no rules or laws-sense?

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    I wonder how many liberal westerners hate Adelina because she crosses herself before she skates? I remember complaints in 1994 about Oksana Baiul also showing her Christianity by crossing herself before skating. I hope that some liberals aren't also taking it out on Adelina for showing her religion. Everybody should be free to express his/her religion on the ice.
    Who cares about person's religion or religious behavior when it's personal? If I am not mistaken, liberals objects to religion when the government is involved. Human history is marred by wars and destruction when a sovereign is entangled with religions. No liberal that I know of object to personal prayer.

  19. #139
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    never mind.

  20. #140
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    Ashley skated better than a few people placed in front of her at Sochi. I think she deserved to be higher than seventh place. Totally agree with going with your own perceptions and opinions which doesn't negate often agreeing and sometimes not agreeing with those out there commenting on figure skating. Kudos to those commenting and providing their insights on figure skating. Not enough outlets for that in the U.S. I appreciate hearing as much commentary about figure skating as I can find.

    As far as Adelina, she was on fire, and determined not to be out done by Julia L. Snubbed for the team event, Adelina didn't let the opportunity to light up the singles event in her home country pass her by. Granted both Adelina and Julia (especially) received home-cooking scores, particularly on PCS. But, ain't that figure skating!?

    If it had to be a Russian lady winning it all (and apparently in Sochi, it had to be), much better Adelina (who is a bit older, a better jumper, and has more potential) than Julia, IMHO! OTOH, too bad winning it all might just stifle Adelina from actually fulfilling her potential to become a more complete skater. But once again, that's figure skating, especially these days.

    The Russian ladies have a lot of talent, but not so much more than Gracie and many other ladies skaters including veterans and up-and-comers. All the Russian ladies could benefit from some Frank Carroll skate whispering advice (especially in the area of costuming).

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