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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post
    Now we have two of the top Russian teams changing partners at a rather late date - I&K after winning Olympic medals. I can't help but wonder how quickly they will rise in the rankings. Is the longevity of the partnership such a huge asset or can these talented skaters overcome what many would think of as a disadvantage? It will be great to watch.
    It will only be great to watch if the new Russian teams are ranked fairly. If they are given inflated marks just because one person in each team is a former Olympic medalist, that will not be fun to see. As it is, I&K themselves sometimes got inflated marks. Should they really have been so high after the SD in Saitaima after the major twizzle mistake?

  2. #842

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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post
    I have cared so passionately about V&M all these years - if they do not continue - one thing I will look forward to is seeing how all of this works out. We will see what Marina can do.
    Yes, will be interesting to see how things will go for two new teams. Good to see fresh faces in new quad. And good, that all will skate, not like Crone and Samuelson who ended up because there patners want to skate with another girls.

  3. #843

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    It will only be great to watch if the new Russian teams are ranked fairly. If they are given inflated marks just because one person in each team is a former Olympic medalist, that will not be fun to see. As it is, I&K themselves sometimes got inflated marks. Should they really have been so high after the SD in Saitaima after the major twizzle mistake?
    This, to some degree, is my fear. Actually, it could be applied to any team who is "athletic/acrobatic" when comparing them to the marks received by those teams who actually dance. I'd also like to see tech people calling what is happening on the ice on that particular day rather than giving out based on reputation. Same thing with the judges and their giving out +3 GOE and 10s when mistakes are made.

    Man, I'm missing V/M and they technically haven't retired. Please guys, stay?
    Crazy about sports!

  4. #844

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  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    This, to some degree, is my fear. Actually, it could be applied to any team who is "athletic/acrobatic" when comparing them to the marks received by those teams who actually dance. I'd also like to see tech people calling what is happening on the ice on that particular day rather than giving out based on reputation. Same thing with the judges and their giving out +3 GOE and 10s when mistakes are made.

    Man, I'm missing V/M and they technically haven't retired. Please guys, stay?
    Getting marks based on reputation is a problem that has carried over from the old judging system. And it's something that we will probably see in all the disciplines for a while - men, ladies and pairs, too.

    In the event that V&M were to stay, they'd have to go to a new coach since it's been reported here that they have sold their homes in Michigan and moved back to Canada. Their relationship with Marina seems to be over.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    Getting marks based on reputation is a problem that has carried over from the old judging system. And it's something that we will probably see in all the disciplines for a while - men, ladies and pairs, too.

    In the event that V&M were to stay, they'd have to go to a new coach since it's been reported here that they have sold their homes in Michigan and moved back to Canada. Their relationship with Marina seems to be over.
    Makes me wonder if Marina kicked them out??? Her ego probably couldn't handle the way the media took Scott's comment's out of context and made a big deal out of nothing.

  7. #847
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    I think that is carrying it too far. They were scheduled to leave and they did. They knew they would be in SOI Japan followed by CSOI.

  8. #848

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    I think that is carrying it too far. They were scheduled to leave and they did. They knew they would be in SOI Japan followed by CSOI.
    Agree. Plan was to practice in Canton before OG and OG individual FD were the last day of TS 4 years plan.
    Now they need new plan. Will they doing shows, go to school, coaching or maybe will give us more years of competing - this will be new VM buisness and life plan.

  9. #849
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    I wish they would continue so they could get that GPF title they were so continuously robbed of. But it won't happen

  10. #850
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    parapluies


    Speaking of edges and technique, I like this tutorial like preview on skating edges and technique and what is GOOD and what is BAD from the 1994 Worlds:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPujutTOIGs

    0:26: "Here's a couple whose edges are not strong. They appear to skating on top of the ice as opposed to being down into it. Note the lack of depth"
    0:38: "By contrast this is a couple who carve their edges deep into the ice".
    She goes on to say that judges look for edges with a running glide to them, and edges riding on the toepick is bad.

    20 years later, all these rules have apparently been thrown out the window and what is frowned upon/bad is now looked upon as good. I knew there was something weird about all the "lightness" crap that has been said about team(s) that skate on top of the ice like they are not touching the surface

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Makes me wonder if Marina kicked them out??? Her ego probably couldn't handle the way the media took Scott's comment's out of context and made a big deal out of nothing.
    Well, I suppose if Marina was upset it's always possible that she kicked them out of her school. But she probably doesn't have the power to evict them from the state of Michigan unless she has pull with the Governor.

    It may just have been that Tessa & Scott were ready to leave anyway and that Scott commented about the coaching situation because he knew their relationship with Marina was concluded at that point.

  12. #852

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    I hate the fact that Scott has been labeled by some as a whiner and complainer because he acknowledged what a large number of people suspected for some time. They have given Marina a huge amount of credit for their success over their careers and I think were genuinely blindsided by what they saw as a change of attitude towards them this year. I think, with most relationships - it starts out with just a feeling that things are different. You look for tangible signs that you are right or wrong. It sounds like they went to her numerous times and initiated the conversation about their marks and disappointment as to how the season was going for them, and she listened and responded positively and they were relieved. However, things did not improve the way they had hoped. She obviously could not be at the US championships and Canadian ones at the same time - but something about the way she handled this was a tangible sign this season was different. At some point, they realized they were going to have to salvage the season themselves and set about to do so. Apparently, Skate Canada was a big support at this time so kudos to them. I feel it speaks to the marvellous strength they have as individuals and as a team that they were so successful. There was no temper tantrum and Marina was there and present in the K&C to share the joy and credit for their silver medal - but they were also truthful about what it had taken to get there. By all signs, this was not just a very successful coach/skaters relationship as far as phenomenal results for many years - they were very close and in awe of Marina and her talents. Too bad she didn't end this on a higher note.
    pug lover

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post
    I hate the fact that Scott has been labeled by some as a whiner and complainer because he acknowledged what a large number of people suspected for some time. They have given Marina a huge amount of credit for their success over their careers and I think were genuinely blindsided by what they saw as a change of attitude towards them this year. I think, with most relationships - it starts out with just a feeling that things are different. You look for tangible signs that you are right or wrong. It sounds like they went to her numerous times and initiated the conversation about their marks and disappointment as to how the season was going for them, and she listened and responded positively and they were relieved. However, things did not improve the way they had hoped. She obviously could not be at the US championships and Canadian ones at the same time - but something about the way she handled this was a tangible sign this season was different. At some point, they realized they were going to have to salvage the season themselves and set about to do so. Apparently, Skate Canada was a big support at this time so kudos to them. I feel it speaks to the marvellous strength they have as individuals and as a team that they were so successful. There was no temper tantrum and Marina was there and present in the K&C to share the joy and credit for their silver medal - but they were also truthful about what it had taken to get there. By all signs, this was not just a very successful coach/skaters relationship as far as phenomenal results for many years - they were very close and in awe of Marina and her talents. Too bad she didn't end this on a higher note.
    I think what happened to Scott's comments is the same thing that happens during a game of telephone. Scott told the media that they weren't happy & that Marina wasn't in their cornor and that they told that to Marina and they sorted it out with her (which they acknowledged her professionalism). The Canadian media cherry-picked their words leaving out a a lot of information only reporting that "Marina wasn't in their corner". It was the media who blamed Marina for V/M's loss not V/M. The US media picked up on this including the tone, attributed the bewailing to Scott and V/M instead of the author of the article leaving out more information and everybody went out of blind patriotism. This always seems to happen that during the Olympics. I was recently reminded that D/S (the Russians not France) Comments (and other ice dancers comments) at Vancouver were mistranslated and I still feel dumb for falling for that mistanslation years ago and I hope people who called V/M ungracious will feel the same as I did looking back. People seem to forget that the media tends to cut things out so the storyline could make more money or get more viewers.

  14. #854
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    The media had been closely following the Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White rivalry since the last Olympics in Vancouver, and I think this was the opening they had been waiting for. They had asked both teams over and over again in the past several seasons whether they could still stay friends when they were also rivals and what it was like to have the same coach. Up until now everything had been fine. But once the Olympic FD was over and V&M spoke at the press conference about some of the challenges they had this season and their coaching relationship with Marina, it opened the door for the media to spice up the story.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    The media had been closely following the Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White rivalry since the last Olympics in Vancouver, and I think this was the opening they had been waiting for. They had asked both teams over and over again in the past several seasons whether they could still stay friends when they were also rivals and what it was like to have the same coach. Up until now everything had been fine. But once the Olympic FD was over and V&M spoke at the press conference about some of the challenges they had this season and their coaching relationship with Marina, it opened the door for the media to spice up the story.
    In fairness though, it was a pretty weird situation. How could they have had the same coach and trained together when they were bitter rivals for the OGM and it was clear the coach placed her bets on one of the teams? The only time i know this worked(-ish) was when Moskvina coached both Kazakova & Dmitriev and Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze in 1998, but even then Artur's attempts to help Anton actually screwed with his head more and made him even more nervous and Oksana was reportedly jealous of Elena. And Moskvina is probably the best and most professional coach in the world, so it's not surprising people didn't buy into the whole 'love and peace'-act between V&M and D&W.

  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    The media had been closely following the Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White rivalry since the last Olympics in Vancouver, and I think this was the opening they had been waiting for. They had asked both teams over and over again in the past several seasons whether they could still stay friends when they were also rivals and what it was like to have the same coach. Up until now everything had been fine. But once the Olympic FD was over and V&M spoke at the press conference about some of the challenges they had this season and their coaching relationship with Marina, it opened the door for the media to spice up the story.
    Spice it up by taking things out of context. There was, as the saying goes "much ado about nothing". Makes me wish more people would question what they read. Newspaper will do anything for a good scoop its quite sickening. Maybe that is where V/M went wrong. They were a little bit to naïve and honest. In this sport honesty will do you no good. Nevertheless, I just came acrross this article : http://www.mondaymag.com/news/255692...medium=twitter
    Last edited by parapluies; 04-18-2014 at 12:16 AM.

  17. #857

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    If you haven't read it already, there is a Russian interview with B&S. V&M were mentioned twice by the reporter--once alongside D&W, the other specifically about them and whether B&S would like to do such daring lifts as V&M's last life in their Carmen FD.

  18. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    If you haven't read it already, there is a Russian interview with B&S. V&M were mentioned twice by the reporter--once alongside D&W, the other specifically about them and whether B&S would like to do such daring lifts as V&M's last life in their Carmen FD.
    Do you have a link to the interview? I read that it said there was going to make changes to the twizzles? But I can't find the interview.

  19. #859

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Do you have a link to the interview? I read that it said there was going to make changes to the twizzles? But I can't find the interview.
    Here you go:

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...-are-so-pissed

  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Thanks! I've momentarily forgotten their Coach was Zhulin now the answer to the lifts make sense. If I remember, he made one of his teams do the Goose I won't be surprised if B/S get a variation of the Carmen Lift. People have continuously insulted V/M because of their lifts from Carmen and Carmen itself but now its refreshing to see teams inspired by their FD and willing to execute lifts as difficult as the ones in Carmen.

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