Trick question? I'm having a hard time seeing him as definite top 5 WITH an OGM. So, no, it's not the lack of it that takes him out of the running. 5 is a very small number. This poll says more about his overhype than his skating IMO.
I(OP) realize the poll question has a possibility of double question or inducing question unintendedly.
Anyway, because I (who am an admirer for his skating, not his uber) thought Chan is a phenomenal skater very rarely coming, I (mis?-)guessed many users already would be considering him as an all-time top * placer.
Last edited by t.mann; 03-02-2014 at 09:01 AM.
If someone wants to start a poll over who is skating's most controversial champion I think Chan definitely would make the top five.
If so many of the best minds in skating think Chan has remarkable skills I won't argue against that.
It would be nice for Patrick if he and Yuzu skate lights out at Worlds and Patrick comes out on top. If it is just another typical COP Men's splatfest and Chan wins I don't see that enhancing his legacy as much.
Thinking of Yuna and how well she skated in Sochi is what enhances a skater's reputation.
Losing the Team SP to Yuzu and Plushenko then losing the individual event to a sloppy 19 year old Yuzu at his first Olympics is just not the stuff that creates the greatest best of all-time legacy.
I voted No. Because he is not in all time top 5 so ''you can't lose something you never had''
For me it depends on top 5 what. If you mean champion, then yes, his lack of title takes him out of top 5, but if you mean skater, then maybe no.
I think his ability to fight for a title, fight against his rivals and win is lacking, unlike Yagudin, Plushenko etc, who almost always rose to the challenge and put their hearts on the line. They were true champions who brought the audience in and made you marvel at them.
If you mean as a skater, when his jumps are on and his program is complete, then no. His skating skills plus his technical ability make him almost unbeatable and he's fantastic to watch just glide around on the ice. His passion is not as evident as other skaters, but his skating skills are superb.
It seems that he could possibly be destined to be remembered as the Trixi Schuba of IJS. I think history will judge him much more fairly and in 30 years time he will be remembered as the phenomenal skater he is, despite the results. Just as Trixi is respected with time for her incredible abilities when in reality, at the time of her wins she was treated less than generously by some. Had the internet existed she would have been vilified.
I was also thinking about what makes a great skating legacy.
I was always a big Lambiel fan. He won lots of medals but might not make a "top five greatest list." But his musicality might be top five. His spins as well. He possessed an elegance on the ice few have ever matched.
In the modern era Plushenko owns longevity and at a legendary level. He is probably the greatest jumper in history. He is one of the greatest competitors in history. And he owned the ice like few others.
When I think about Patrick I guess he owns skating skills. But what else? In the post 2010 era the top jumpers are doing more than one type of quad and have solid 3a's. But not Patrick.
His spins are good but not Hall of Fame caliber. His glide is great but did he ever shake the "skating by numbers feel" we see from too many COP skaters? He did a few times and produced magical performances.
As a competitor how does Chan compare to the all-tme greats?
Did he own the ice the way the Cranston, Curry, Browning, Yagudin, Lambiel, Plushy, Dai, and Yuzu do?
Was he an innovator on the level of Button, Petkovich (he practically invented "air" when we consider jumps - I remember him and your great video tribute!) Browning or even Elvis?
Having great skating skills counts but might not be enough to be a top five all-time skater.
Patrick is still young and who know what he might show if he continues.
I would look forward to seeing four more years.
Last edited by MrLucky; 03-01-2014 at 08:47 PM.
No, because he already was no where near contending for Top 5 of all time, or even Top 5 for the time I've been watching skating. If you really mean "all time" then spots probably need to be reserved for Ulrich Salchow and Dick Button and maybe Gillis Grafstrom, which doesn't leave too many spots for modern era skaters. I'd rank Curry, Cousins, Hamilton, Petrenko, Plushenko and even Browning above Chan, arguably also Boitano, Orser, and Yagudin.
I think the personality/likability factor is also something against him. A lot of people just don't like him for whatever reason - maybe it's the Anne Hathaway unknown but many people just seem to find it hard to root for him (and I'm sure the controversial wins didn't help). That's not to say all the greats are nice and humble (obviously not), but you kind of have to a little swag to back up a larger than life persona, which is what made the Yags vs Plushy stuff so great and it's something Patrick clearly doesn't have.
Patrick's personality hasn't helped him win hearts. With the greatest ones at least their personalities dont get in the way. But Patrick's is always doing just that. A real pity, because if the public loves you they will forgive mistakes.
With that said, I actually wouldn't think tbat Patrick winning in Sochi would have been controversial. He's a different skater now than he was 2 years ago. Back then, he had great SS but was vastly overrated. He should have been getting lower PCS than Takahashi back then but didn't. Now, he should be getting the highest PCS (as he is getting).
I don't think it's just the arrogance, but it's a certain way you pull off that arrogance. Like I think Patrick jumped on that arrogance train way too early. You're supposed to become a legend first and then act like you rule. For him, it just seemed like umm who died and made him king... Also he always seems to make fun of Plushenko's advanced age before an Olympics yet he still loses to him lol.
Also arrogance is more acceptable when your competitors are also that way, but recently you have nice guys like Yuzuru and Denis and Dai, while Patrick seems out of place with his attitude.
*shrug* everyone and their kid cousin seems to have hated Sonja Henie's guts, yet she'd be on my top 5 list in a heartbeat.