View Poll Results: Does Chan's lack of OGM take him out of contention for all-time Top 5?

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  • Yes

    37 38.14%
  • No

    60 61.86%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post

    Actually he reminds me of Sasha Cohen. Beautiful skater, lovely edges, musicality, etc. Just not ever consistent enough with the jumps.
    is this what you meant to say?
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  2. #22
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    Trick question? I'm having a hard time seeing him as definite top 5 WITH an OGM. So, no, it's not the lack of it that takes him out of the running. 5 is a very small number. This poll says more about his overhype than his skating IMO.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Trick question? I'm having a hard time seeing him as definite top 5 WITH an OGM. So, no, it's not the lack of it that takes him out of the running. 5 is a very small number. This poll says more about his overhype than his skating IMO.
    This was my thought exactly, and why I voted no.

  4. #24
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    I(OP) realize the poll question has a possibility of double question or inducing question unintendedly.
    Anyway, because I (who am an admirer for his skating, not his uber) thought Chan is a phenomenal skater very rarely coming, I (mis?-)guessed many users already would be considering him as an all-time top * placer.
    Last edited by t.mann; 03-02-2014 at 09:01 AM.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    He will be remember for his beautiful skating skills and transitional moves as Midori Ito was for her jumps.

    Saying that, whilst Ito only ever had one world title and an Olympic silver medal to her name, she is still regarded as one of the best female skaters ever.
    Totally agree.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    If/After Hanyu wins a second OGM in four years Chan will not even be remembered as the best of his era let alone all-time.

    I do think Chan is a very gifted skater and will be remembered more like Lambiel.

    The greatest champions in any sport have great heart. Chan's failure to ever beat Plushenko, who was way past his physical prime speaks volumes.

    Same with his controversial win over an aging Dai. Chan's reputation win over Dennis Ten is not what earns a skater a best of all time ranking. To the contrary it makes it clear he was an average competitor, who had great SS but technical issues on axel jumps that he never solved.

    Perhaps he will continue and that could change things. He could win a 4th WC in a few weeks which would be a nice way to go out.
    Based on the rules, I think there is some justification for Chan's wins over those two. Only after stronger jumpers like Fernandez and Hanyu came on the scene that Chan was truly challenged, particularly by the latter. That's when his weakness as a competitor was exposed. May be he would have developed it had he not gotten wins that easily early in his career. I would really like him to stick around, get better and be in OGM contention in 2018, but not as heavily as he was in Sochi.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Based on the rules, I think there is some justification for Chan's wins over those two. Only after stronger jumpers like Fernandez and Hanyu came on the scene that Chan was truly challenged, particularly by the latter. That's when his weakness as a competitor was exposed. May be he would have developed it had he not gotten wins that easily early in his career. I would really like him to stick around, get better and be in OGM contention in 2018, but not as heavily as he was in Sochi.
    Dennis is not necessarily a better jumper than Chan (maybe his 3A is better but that hardly makes him unique) and Chan's last two WC's for better or worse were highly controversial. Not to mention a few controversial splat filled GP wins.

    If someone wants to start a poll over who is skating's most controversial champion I think Chan definitely would make the top five.

    If so many of the best minds in skating think Chan has remarkable skills I won't argue against that.

    It would be nice for Patrick if he and Yuzu skate lights out at Worlds and Patrick comes out on top. If it is just another typical COP Men's splatfest and Chan wins I don't see that enhancing his legacy as much.

    Thinking of Yuna and how well she skated in Sochi is what enhances a skater's reputation.

    Losing the Team SP to Yuzu and Plushenko then losing the individual event to a sloppy 19 year old Yuzu at his first Olympics is just not the stuff that creates the greatest best of all-time legacy.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    Dennis is not necessarily a better jumper than Chan (maybe his 3A is better but that hardly makes him unique) and Chan's last two WC's for better or worse were highly controversial. Not to mention a few controversial slat filled GP wins.

    If someone wants to start a poll over who is skating's most controversial champion I think Chan definitely would make the top five.

    If so many of the best minds in skating think Chan has remarkable skills I won't argue against that.

    It would be nice for Patrick if he and Yuzu skate lights out at Worlds and Patrick comes out on top. If it is just another typical COP Men's splatfest and Chan wins I don't see that enhancing his legacy as much.

    Thinking of Yuna and how well she skated in Sochi is what enhances a skater's reputation.

    Losing the Team SP to Yuzu and Plushenko then losing the individual event to a sloppy 19 year old Yuzu at his first Olympics is just not the stuff that creates the greatest best of all-time legacy.
    I think he could make the top 5 in the most controversial world champions, but if the Olympic champions (all disciplines included) are thrown in, he won't be anywhere near the top 5 (may be it helped that he did not win, in that case)

  9. #29
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    I voted No. Because he is not in all time top 5 so ''you can't lose something you never had''

  10. #30
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    For me it depends on top 5 what. If you mean champion, then yes, his lack of title takes him out of top 5, but if you mean skater, then maybe no.

    I think his ability to fight for a title, fight against his rivals and win is lacking, unlike Yagudin, Plushenko etc, who almost always rose to the challenge and put their hearts on the line. They were true champions who brought the audience in and made you marvel at them.

    If you mean as a skater, when his jumps are on and his program is complete, then no. His skating skills plus his technical ability make him almost unbeatable and he's fantastic to watch just glide around on the ice. His passion is not as evident as other skaters, but his skating skills are superb.

  11. #31
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    It seems that he could possibly be destined to be remembered as the Trixi Schuba of IJS. I think history will judge him much more fairly and in 30 years time he will be remembered as the phenomenal skater he is, despite the results. Just as Trixi is respected with time for her incredible abilities when in reality, at the time of her wins she was treated less than generously by some. Had the internet existed she would have been vilified.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    It seems that he could possibly be destined to be remembered as the Trixi Schuba of IJS. I think history will judge him much more fairly and in 30 years time he will be remembered as the phenomenal skater he is, despite the results. Just as Trixi is respected with time for her incredible abilities when in reality, at the time of her wins she was treated less than generously by some. Had the internet existed she would have been vilified.
    Interesting comparison. I never thought about it but it fits well. I feel Patrick Chan is a skater to be respected more than loved. His skating skills and technique are undeniable, but he lacks the charisma and personality of a Daisuke or Yagudin that attract the audience's attention. I have felt the overemphasis on the technical details of skating in recent years has resulted in outcomes that have puzzled viewers, probably not unlike when Trixi Schuba was winning over Lynn.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    I agree the consistency is the question mark on his career thus far. But he has had some utterly brilliant skates that on their own merits would make a great argument to be regarded as amongst the greatest performances of all time.
    I agree with this.

    I was also thinking about what makes a great skating legacy.

    I was always a big Lambiel fan. He won lots of medals but might not make a "top five greatest list." But his musicality might be top five. His spins as well. He possessed an elegance on the ice few have ever matched.

    In the modern era Plushenko owns longevity and at a legendary level. He is probably the greatest jumper in history. He is one of the greatest competitors in history. And he owned the ice like few others.

    When I think about Patrick I guess he owns skating skills. But what else? In the post 2010 era the top jumpers are doing more than one type of quad and have solid 3a's. But not Patrick.
    His spins are good but not Hall of Fame caliber. His glide is great but did he ever shake the "skating by numbers feel" we see from too many COP skaters? He did a few times and produced magical performances.

    As a competitor how does Chan compare to the all-tme greats?

    Did he own the ice the way the Cranston, Curry, Browning, Yagudin, Lambiel, Plushy, Dai, and Yuzu do?
    Was he an innovator on the level of Button, Petkovich (he practically invented "air" when we consider jumps - I remember him and your great video tribute!) Browning or even Elvis?

    Having great skating skills counts but might not be enough to be a top five all-time skater.

    Patrick is still young and who know what he might show if he continues.
    I would look forward to seeing four more years.
    Last edited by MrLucky; 03-01-2014 at 08:47 PM.

  14. #34
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    No, because he already was no where near contending for Top 5 of all time, or even Top 5 for the time I've been watching skating. If you really mean "all time" then spots probably need to be reserved for Ulrich Salchow and Dick Button and maybe Gillis Grafstrom, which doesn't leave too many spots for modern era skaters. I'd rank Curry, Cousins, Hamilton, Petrenko, Plushenko and even Browning above Chan, arguably also Boitano, Orser, and Yagudin.

  15. #35
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    I think the personality/likability factor is also something against him. A lot of people just don't like him for whatever reason - maybe it's the Anne Hathaway unknown but many people just seem to find it hard to root for him (and I'm sure the controversial wins didn't help). That's not to say all the greats are nice and humble (obviously not), but you kind of have to a little swag to back up a larger than life persona, which is what made the Yags vs Plushy stuff so great and it's something Patrick clearly doesn't have.

  16. #36

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    Patrick's personality hasn't helped him win hearts. With the greatest ones at least their personalities dont get in the way. But Patrick's is always doing just that. A real pity, because if the public loves you they will forgive mistakes.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechicko_o View Post
    I think the personality/likability factor is also something against him. A lot of people just don't like him for whatever reason - maybe it's the Anne Hathaway unknown but many people just seem to find it hard to root for him (and I'm sure the controversial wins didn't help). That's not to say all the greats are nice and humble (obviously not), but you kind of have to a little swag to back up a larger than life persona, which is what made the Yags vs Plushy stuff so great and it's something Patrick clearly doesn't have.
    I think Patrick made remarks at some point that were interpreted as arrogant the past two years. Not sure what they were, but I remember he was criticized at GPF and TEB this year for this.

    With that said, I actually wouldn't think tbat Patrick winning in Sochi would have been controversial. He's a different skater now than he was 2 years ago. Back then, he had great SS but was vastly overrated. He should have been getting lower PCS than Takahashi back then but didn't. Now, he should be getting the highest PCS (as he is getting).

  18. #38
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    I don't think it's just the arrogance, but it's a certain way you pull off that arrogance. Like I think Patrick jumped on that arrogance train way too early. You're supposed to become a legend first and then act like you rule. For him, it just seemed like umm who died and made him king... Also he always seems to make fun of Plushenko's advanced age before an Olympics yet he still loses to him lol.

    Also arrogance is more acceptable when your competitors are also that way, but recently you have nice guys like Yuzuru and Denis and Dai, while Patrick seems out of place with his attitude.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechicko_o View Post
    I think the personality/likability factor is also something against him. A lot of people just don't like him for whatever reason - maybe it's the Anne Hathaway unknown but many people just seem to find it hard to root for him (and I'm sure the controversial wins didn't help). That's not to say all the greats are nice and humble (obviously not), but you kind of have to a little swag to back up a larger than life persona, which is what made the Yags vs Plushy stuff so great and it's something Patrick clearly doesn't have.
    Like if you "wanna talk the talk you gotta walk the walk, or in this case "skate the skate"
    I was hoping for a "Battle of the Brians" type showdown in Sochi but both skaters fell far short of what we saw back in Calgary.

  20. #40
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    *shrug* everyone and their kid cousin seems to have hated Sonja Henie's guts, yet she'd be on my top 5 list in a heartbeat.

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