View Poll Results: Does Chan's lack of OGM take him out of contention for all-time Top 5?

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  • Yes

    37 38.14%
  • No

    60 61.86%
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  1. #1
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    Does Chan's lack of OGM take him out of contention for all-time Top 5?

    Chan : OSM, 3 WC golds, 2 WC silvers, 7 WR settings, the best ever skating skills

    No in my book. (Still a contender for very high ranking.)
    In your book?
    Last edited by t.mann; 03-01-2014 at 04:44 AM.

  2. #2
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    Not so much the lack of OGM but the controversial worlds wins with bad performances (2013, 2012).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechicko_o View Post
    Not so much the lack of OGM but the controversial worlds wins with bad performances (2013, 2012).
    Oui, bien sur

  4. #4
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    It has to be considered that quite a few people thought/think in hindsight 09WC title had to go to Chan.
    Last edited by t.mann; 03-01-2014 at 03:58 AM.

  5. #5
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    I've rarely seen complaints about 2009 (an OK clean performance won), certainly not the level of outrage of 2012 and 2013, which led to a loooooot of b--ch fests.

  6. #6
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    Lack of Olympic gold doesn't take him out of contention. What takes him out of contention is the same thing that takes Sasha Cohen out of contention: lack of consistency, and poorly skated LP's. His lack of a reliable triple axel really hurt him.

    Actually he reminds me of Sasha Cohen. Beautiful skater, lovely edges, musicality, etc. Just not ever consistent enough with the jumps.

  7. #7

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    He will be remember for his beautiful skating skills and transitional moves as Midori Ito was for her jumps.

    Saying that, whilst Ito only ever had one world title and an Olympic silver medal to her name, she is still regarded as one of the best female skaters ever.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  8. #8
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    I wouldn't consider him in the top 5 because of his three world titles, he really only deserved one of them. It's a pity because he's a remarkable skater, and his combination of performances at TEB possibly make for the best competition put forward by a man, ever. But he never could put it together to two near-clean programs. I also think that he was given too much credit for PCS until around the last two seasons when he really blossomed. His Rach and Baroque programs are simply masterpieces.
    Last edited by shady82; 03-01-2014 at 05:01 AM.

  9. #9

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    It isn't even about him; there are at least 5 other skaters for any "all time list" that (IMO) should outrank him ... one of whom (Kurt Browning) doesn't have an Oly medal of any kind. (Other 4 -- Dick Button; Ulrich Salcow; Plush; Grafstrom)

  10. #10
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    I dont think Chan is top 5 all time, but it is not based on his failure to win the OGM. So I voted no for that simple reason. If he isnt top 5 all time it is more due to his inconsistency, and his high number of controversial wins.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    It has to be considered that quite a few people thought/think in hindsight 09WC title had to go to Chan.
    I think he should have won the 2009 Worlds but you could atleast make a case for Evan's win. He skated completely clean in both programs with Chan made 2 obvious mistakes. Neither attempted a quad and had about the same jumps. It cannot be compared to the 2012 and 2013 Worlds results which drew far more controversy about them, fairly or unfairly, than any Worlds in recent memory, and way more than 2009.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechicko_o View Post
    Not so much the lack of OGM but the controversial worlds wins with bad performances (2013, 2012).
    His win in 2012 was controversial but it certainly was not a poor performance and it is very unfair to say that. It was still an excellent performance. In the short only one small mistake and in the long one big mistake on a simple jump that was a bit flukish and one other small mistake.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    His win in 2012 was controversial but it certainly was not a poor performance and it is very unfair to say that. It was still an excellent performance. In the short only one small mistake and in the long one big mistake on a simple jump that was a bit flukish and one other small mistake.
    I'm sorry but while that splat on the double axel attempt was memorably hilarious and makes a great fail gif, that performance left a lot of room for controversy with that event and especially beating Takahashi..

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    I dont think Chan is top 5 all time, but it is not based on his failure to win the OGM. So I voted no for that simple reason. If he isnt top 5 all time it is more due to his inconsistency, and his high number of controversial wins.
    This is how I see it too. He is neither a great artist nor a monster technician who regularly delivers stupendous programs of either sort. I loved him so much in his first year or two as a senior, but something went wrong, for me. Yagudin, Plushy, Curry, Browning, Takahashi - there is my list.

  15. #15
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    Wouldn't the answer depend a lot on whose top five list was in question?

    I mean, if it was Top Five Olympic Gold Medalists, he'd obviously be out of the running. But if was My Top Five Men Skaters, maybe he wouldn't be?
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  16. #16
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    Also kinda depends on if he retires or continues competing (and if he can keep up). But currently, what puts him at a disadvantage for legend/greatest status is his terrible consistency. As for his technical vs. artistic sides, he has good artistry but not like Takahashi amazing and while he is a consistent quad lander, his triple axel is out of control and he falls a lot on random stuff.

    If I'm deciding on "greats": Artistic - Curry, Takahashi. Technical - Plushenko. Good mix of both - Browning, Yagudin.

  17. #17

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    He is one of the great skaters of our time, but I wouldn't place him in the top 5 all time. To me, the top 5 all time would be Dick Button, Evgeny Plushenko, Grafstrom, Salchow, Yagudin.

    If we drop Button, Grafstrom & Salchow, since they were from the mainly CF era, and considered skaters starting from 1980,

    Plushenko, Yagudin, Browning, Boitano, Hamilton, Orser would place ahead of him. Out of these, only Browning is without an Olympic medal, but I am having difficulty dropping him from the list. By contrast, Stojko was a pioneer (first 4-3 combination) and he won 3 world titles and two Olympic silver medals, but I am having difficulty placing him above Chan because of Chan's great basic skating skills and the beauty of his 4-3.

    However, Chan has not retired yet, so he could potentially win more world titles and if he sticks around till 2018, he will be one of the contenders/challengers for the gold.

  18. #18
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    I agree the consistency is the question mark on his career thus far. But he has had some utterly brilliant skates that on their own merits would make a great argument to be regarded as amongst the greatest performances of all time.

  19. #19
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    Good if somewhat inconsistent skater.
    Hot or cold connection to the music and the audience.
    Poor PR skills.

  20. #20
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    If/After Hanyu wins a second OGM in four years Chan will not even be remembered as the best of his era let alone all-time.

    I do think Chan is a very gifted skater and will be remembered more like Lambiel.

    The greatest champions in any sport have great heart. Chan's failure to ever beat Plushenko, who was way past his physical prime speaks volumes.

    Same with his controversial win over an aging Dai. Chan's reputation win over Dennis Ten is not what earns a skater a best of all time ranking. To the contrary it makes it clear he was an average competitor, who had great SS but technical issues on axel jumps that he never solved.

    Perhaps he will continue and that could change things. He could win a 4th WC in a few weeks which would be a nice way to go out.

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