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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I don't know if it was any particular result, but yes, they got rid of raw point totals because it was giving figures an inordinate effect on the outcomes. While the top few places on any one judge's card would typically be separated by one or two points in the SP or FS, there would often be much larger point gaps in the figures. That meant a skater could win figures by several points then lose both the SP & FS and still be first on that judge's card. (Actually that is kind of like we see today sometimes under IJS - the big SP lead seeming to render the FS less relevant.) So they went from summing the points across the three phases to determine a judge's ordinal placements to giving ordinal placements for each judge for each phase.
    It might've had something to do w/ Robin Cousins and Jan Hoffmann's results as well

    ETA - ITA w/ your post, but sometimes there is a trigger for the public watching that perpetuates changes. Perhaps, the Poetzsch-Fratianne-Biellmann final standings and the Hoffmann-Cousins standings at '80 Worlds played a part in forcing the ISU's hand. I would have to go back and look at the results, but wasn't there some carping in Ice Dance re the results of Linichuk-Karponosov v. Regoeczoy / Sallay? All the above happened in 1980 and the system changed dramatically the following year.
    Last edited by olympic; 03-01-2014 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    It might've had something to do w/ Robin Cousins and Jan Hoffmann's results as well
    I am relieved for that result. The wonderful in everyway Cousins as Olympic Champion was a way better result for the sport than the mechanical figures and jumping specialist Hoffmann. Then again the same could be said of the womens event in a close overall call between Poetzsch and Fratianne, Fratianne as Oly Champ would have been way productive for the sport as a whole.

  3. #43
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    One of the biggest changes inspired by an individual skater is of course the Zayak rule. One could say her 1982 Worlds win was a little controversial, but that was because the factored placements in the competition were all over the place. Did anyone say at the time that Zayak didn't deserve to win because she did the same jump (3t) four times?

  4. #44
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    Some rule changes were good for the sport in the long run. Elimination of figures. The 2002 scandal, on the other hand, led to the creation of the COP, and frankly, I don't see how it's a better system at this point. I never got how anonymous judging could lead to fairer/better judging. What always interests me is if the pairs event were scored using the new system, the Russians might still have won given the fact that they skated a more difficult program.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    I am relieved for that result. The wonderful in everyway Cousins as Olympic Champion was a way better result for the sport than the mechanical figures and jumping specialist Hoffmann.
    Yes, but Hoffman has totally redeemed himself as a judge by consistently rewarding the skaters who are strong performers over the technical. (The most famous example is giving his first place ordinal in the Lillehammer FS to Baiul.)

    Cousins did lose at 1980 Worlds because of figures. He did finally get some 6.0 marks in the free skate. While I also thought he was wonderful in every way during his eligible career, it was as a pro skater that he really became a master.

    I have a hazy recollection that at one of the 1980 events there was some funny business with the judging (starring the East German judge) to push Cousins down. He or she had Cousins multiple places lower than the other judges. The majority ordinals system was implemented shortly after that.
    Last edited by Susan M; 03-01-2014 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #46
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    Which ironically would mean that Marina was giving them the slightly worse program at least on several occasions, which in turn supports the theory that Marina has been favoring D/W for some time.
    What a load of baloney. Saying a program is better is not just about music and choreo, it is also about how the skaters embody it. Besides, there is a direct correlation between the choreography and the skaters' ability to execute it. Different choreo suits different strengths/ hides different weaknesses and that all goes into making the program choreography what it is.

    You talk (figuratively speaking) like these are toddlers stuck wearing whatever clothes their mom puts them in. The coach and choreographer work for the athlete. They may suggest or recommend (and even strongly recommend), but ultimately the athletes have to take responsibility for their music choices and their choreography. Most skaters are involved in the selection of their music, listen to lots of options and cuts with the coach and/or choreographer before selecting one. In the case of all Zueva's teams, she alone is not responsible for the choreo. They all have worked with dancers and choreographers to incorporate floor moves and styles into their dances. IMO it is low and cowardly for athletes to try to shift blame to others.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Some rule changes were good for the sport in the long run. Elimination of figures. The 2002 scandal, on the other hand, led to the creation of the COP, and frankly, I don't see how it's a better system at this point. I never got how anonymous judging could lead to fairer/better judging.
    Though they came along at the same time, we really should separate the concept of anonymous judging from the scoring system itself. The USFS uses the IJS to score Nationals, yet publishes protocols showing exactly which judge gave which marks. It would be really easy for the ISU to eliminate anonymity without changing anything else about the scoring system.

    Anonymity apart, I am conflicted about the IJS as a scoring system. I do agree with those who find it has driven programs to be too oriented toward accumulating points and caused them to be less entertaining as performances. I think the concept does have some value, though, but I also think that the point values being given, the way levels and GOE are assigned, and the structure and points guidance for PCS all need to be re-visted with an eye to where they have led skating too far from its traditional values.

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