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  1. #41
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    Well, he took on Jenny who was a bit of a head case and best scenario 5-7 at worlds skater, so who knows, maybe he really wanted to redo his kitchen or something.

  2. #42
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    Among the four men mentiined Abbott doesnt play musical coaches, and Adam already has a tech coach. Miner also needs a tech coach to retool his jumps. Dornbush has college. So who can Frank coach?

  3. #43
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    I think Frank has a good fit with Gracie Gold and Denis Ten. Gold has the technical chops, Ten has the work ethic.

  4. #44
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    frank is simply a "safe" skating coach- he seems to have no conception of what a skater needs to do technically-he is stuck in the 90's when safe skating could get you a medal= not any more frank

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    frank is simply a "safe" skating coach- he seems to have no conception of what a skater needs to do technically-he is stuck in the 90's when safe skating could get you a medal= not any more frank
    Yes, his coaching style certainly destroyed Evan Lysacek's potential in 2010
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  6. #46
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    Interesting article. I wonder if Frank will keep taking elite skaters and for how long. He has done some great skating. I see people's point that he is not a technical envelope pusher, but OTOH he has really maximized some people's potential.

  7. #47
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    evan could not compete today unless he could suddenly do a few quads lol

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    evan could not compete today unless he could suddenly do a few quads lol
    Because the men's event at the Olympics was so amazing that Evan's performances in 2010 would not have compared? Beyond which, Frank coached Denis to a 2013 World silver medal and a 2014 Olympic bronze.

    I don't believe there is such a thing as a once size fits all coach. Different personalities mesh better with others and teaching/learning methods vary. Frank's methods may work for one and not have any effect on another. That's not a knock on the skater or the coach, that's just the way it works. At the end of the day he's had enough success as a coach(and how!) that his legacy speaks for itself.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Because the men's event at the Olympics was so amazing that Evan's performances in 2010 would not have compared? Beyond which, Frank coached Denis to a 2013 World silver medal and a 2014 Olympic bronze.

    I don't believe there is such a thing as a once size fits all coach. Different personalities mesh better with others and teaching/learning methods vary. Frank's methods may work for one and not have any effect on another. That's not a knock on the skater or the coach, that's just the way it works. At the end of the day he's had enough success as a coach(and how!) that his legacy speaks for itself.
    yeah a legacy of teaching safe skating- it's so different now

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    yeah a legacy of teaching safe skating- it's so different now
    If it's so different, why did Denis Ten just get a bronze medal at the Olympics?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  11. #51

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    ...and Gracie placed 4th.

  12. #52
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    Is marialynn the new caseyedwards?? Lol..

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    Is marialynn the new caseyedwards?? Lol..
    I thought they were the same person. One a little more extreme than the other…an account created to not kill the "credibility" that the poster's first incarnate may have had.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  14. #54

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    Seems like him, doesn't it?

    Seriously, I can't think of another US coach at the moment who can mold a skater to perform at the level he does. Gracie Gold definitely had emotional issues with competing, and look what he pulled off in 4-5 months. She's gunning for a medal next month at Worlds!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    I respect Frank, but I don't really care for him, he just seems shady, lol. Now Mr. Nicks I like a lot! Anyhow, to this day I think Michelle would have won the 2002 Olympic Title if she had stayed with Frank Carroll. Today I still think it was an idiotic decision to leave him right before the Olympics! But then again none of us knew what went on behind the scenes nor does it seem we will ever b/c Michelle will never tell nor Frank, though I did hear whispers of $$$ playing a role...

    Regards GG, I do applaud Frank for making her more consistent, but in the process he seems to have taken away what made her so very special in the first place ~ her HUMONGOUS jumps, which used to be on par with the greatest in the world (Slutskaya, Sotnikova, Sebestyen, et al). I think he's trying to make her into Carolina Kostner, who for the last few years reined in her speed and the size of her jumps and in the process made her a World Champion and an Olympic Medalist. In other words a safe skater, but 99% of the time safe skaters don't win the Olympics. jmho.

    ***note: personally I think this may have also been one of the reasons why Michelle left Frank right before the 2002 Olympics b/c she wanted to go for more difficulty, hence the first time her trying the 3Z/3R in competition at SC, whereas Frank wanted her to play it safe again just like in 1998. Yeah, I know she had the toe injury but I think if she had tried the 3T/3T combo. she was so consistent with she would've won the 1998 Olympic Title. Once again, jmho. Nonetheless, something GG should consider as well in the future. With Frank she will never even attempt the 3A.***
    And why would we want Gracie to start trying to do 3axels? Besides the fact that she has trouble at times landing her 2axel do we want her to become like Mao and become obsessed with it? Mao needed the 3axel since she struggles with the other triples and can't do the harder 3-3 combo's like the other girls but Gracie has better jumps all around then Mao and doesn't need the 3axel right now. If she starts working on it and can land it consistently then maybe i can see it in the future.
    Last edited by Jammers; 02-25-2014 at 12:47 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    Is marialynn the new caseyedwards?? Lol..
    well, isn't it outrageous that Gracie won nats without doing a quad!

  17. #57
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    Thanks for sharing the link, I enjoyed the article.
    Full disclosure: I'm not a big Frank Carroll "fan", that being said I am impressed with the progress Gracie has made since making the move to train with Frank in in CA. It seems to me she is now very clearly the leading US lady both with the USFSA and the ISU. Now lets hope she can keep the momentum going forward.

    Christopher Bowman proved too much for Frank to handle, perhaps too much for anyone to handle including himself. Addiction is such a horrible disease, one which very few can cope with for any sustained period. It tears at your soul and those who love you forever. RIP Chris.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    well, isn't it outrageous that Gracie won nats without doing a quad!
    HA HA HA... OMG.. the travesty!!

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    yeah a legacy of teaching safe skating- it's so different now
    Tim Goebel's 3 quads qualifies as "safe skating"?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough. I'm not saying Frank Carroll isn't a great coach for many skaters. There was a long interview with The Skating Lesson here:

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/fran...erview-part-1/

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/fran...erview-part-2/

    He really goes into detail about his methods. But the "Carroll Method" is really sort of a clinic, designed to build stamina, consistency, and mastery of existing skills. He doesn't consider it his job to help the "headcases" with their various hangups. I guess he did it once with Christopher Bowman and will never go through that again.

    Whatever happened with Michelle Kwan, I think both have said later that it was around 2001/2002 that MK started being a little more "difficult." She was earning a lot of money, she was a huge star, and there were enormous expectations for her to win the gold in SLC. But I do think a coach not so set in his ways about the right method might have been more flexible, and they could have worked out some technical kinks. But Carroll admits that he hunkered down and became even more strict and rigid because that's his way. And we all know what happened.

    Also, while Carroll success stories are remarkable for their consistency, I also think that the relentless emphasis on consistency, and complete run-throughs of programs, comes a little at the expense of performing excitement and spontaneity.
    IDK, he seemed to imply that he did take on a mother "head case" after bowman: goeble.

    The Kwan segment was weird. Although he took great pains to say complimentary things about the whole Kwan family, he did lay out a lengthy timeline where pretty much everything that went wrong in her career was Danny's fault. There was nothing we hadn't heard before thru gossip, but it was a bit shocking to hear an insider pretty much blame him for everything, while smoothly sounding understanding or impartial. He's slick.

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