Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 139
  1. #81

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,852
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40880
    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    The Carroll interview is interesting in that of all the skaters, he seems the most genuine when talking about his one major huge headcase, Christopher Bowman. Despite acknowledging all his frustrations he talks about Bowman with a warmth that sounds completely sincere and not at all passive aggressive. He doesn't emphasize the negative, but speaks about all of Bowman's positive qualities.

    With regards to Michelle Kwan he praises her effusively but is kind of passive aggressive. He throws shade on her Torino comeback, and suggests that she wasn't sincere about trying to skate there. And I find all of this odd because I saw an interview the two of them did together during Sochi where she was more than respectful of him -- she still seemed totally awed by him. He's strangely impersonal about Evan Lysacek too.

    So it's weird that he emphasizes how he's all business, and he's not there to baby the skaters or fix their personal problems, but at the same time he's the most warm about the one skater with insurmountable personal problems.
    I think it was Bowman where Carroll put his foot down on no longer being personal and trying to be a surrogate father or psychologist/life coach to a skater. I think he learned to be hardened from that experience and Kwan was the first big skater he had post-Bowman. Luckily for Kwan, she had a stable family she could count on (and an older sister to help her through the process and share the experience with). I think Carroll's relationship with Kwan is much more of an old professor to a star pupil than it is one of a family member. That would probably explain why Kwan still is in awe of him while he may hold her in his heart, it's still at arms-length.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  2. #82
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Err....Christopher Bowman is dead, so that would color the way Frank decides to speak about him. It's tacky to speak ill of the dead, even if you're describing something objectively.

  3. #83

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    in the yarn stash
    Posts
    1,880
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19
    But he was talking about how Frank referred to Christopher, and canbelto didn't say anything untoward imo.
    I think Frank did change his strategy after Christopher, it was probably heartbreaking, since Frank didn't have children himself.

  4. #84
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    nj/ny
    Posts
    1,430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Exclamation

    There's a difference between a generalized politeness when "not speaking ill of the dead," and how Frank speaks of Christopher Bowman. He says that Christopher was difficult, but then follows up with very genuine, warm reflections about how Christopher was also funny, charming, talented, basically wonderful.

    I just wonder if other skaters perhaps needed more of the warm, empathetic approach Carroll took towards Christopher, and whether Carroll after the Bowman saga swung too far in the other direction towards a strict, detached approach to skaters.

  5. #85

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,019
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    There's a difference between a generalized politeness when "not speaking ill of the dead," and how Frank speaks of Christopher Bowman. He says that Christopher was difficult, but then follows up with very genuine, warm reflections about how Christopher was also funny, charming, talented, basically wonderful.

    I just wonder if other skaters perhaps needed more of the warm, empathetic approach Carroll took towards Christopher, and whether Carroll after the Bowman saga swung too far in the other direction towards a strict, detached approach to skaters.
    I think every skater needs something different. However, maybe Frank feels the warm empathetic approach, actually harmed Christopher? That maybe if he had fired Christopher a long time earlier it would have been a wake up call early enough in Christopher's issues to make a difference. Of course nobody's to blame in the sense that Christopher made Christopher's choices.

    No coaching approach work for everyone. It doesn't seem Frank worked particularly well for Kostner.

    However, I see the benefits of the Frank's approach far out weighing the negatives. I.e I think emotional distance helps the students as much as the coach. I.e your not letting down a surrogate parent! (eek) Letting the parents be the parents, and the coach be the coach.

    I know Nina Mozer talked about the coach not being entitled to emotions, and it seems from the interview she tried to just stay out of the whole Stas/Tatiana/Maxim mess.

    I thought that Michelle and Frank seemed to get along super well and seemed to have pretty warm feelings for each other....I think the fact that this was not surrogate parent probably helped.

    In terms of Frank putting in the three flip zinger. I think well in Frank's mind, Michelle should have known better than to go coachless in the Olympics. I remember reading an article where he mentioned that he wished Michelle would choose a coach, rather than going at the Olympics alone.

  6. #86
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    *note: even Michelle Kwan was a risk taker at heart. I recall her taking her sr. figure skating tests against the advice of her coach Frank Carroll. And guess what she passed with flying colors and she came second to Tonya Harding the next year at Nationals. :cool*
    that doesn't seem to be exactly right. Frank wanted her to win 93 jr nats so she could show up in 94 to vie for an oly spot as a national champion, not the little kid who placed somewhere in the sr. crowd and might not be remembered. It all worked out in the end so he doesn't seem too bothered, but I'm not aware of many coaches who would welcome such blatant disregard for instruction.

    The tai b interview was interesting. She said she doesn't know Sasha, but she's always shocked by the stories because she always knew nicks as a strict disciplinarian who never tolerated pupils challenging his directives, yet the papers were full of pr fluff of Sasha calling all the shots, doing as she pleased, etc...

    I know the pr friendly story of michelle taking the test all on her own makes her seem like the plucky little risk taker, but he at least offers the option that she was just a kid pushed into it by her stagemom dad.

  7. #87

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,852
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40880
    I don't remember hearing that it was Danny's idea for Kwan to take the senior test. Anyway, as much flack as Danny Kwan gets, Frank Carroll says that Danny Kwan made choices that reasonable parents would make. Not that they always worked out, but Frank said that he has no doubt that Danny had Michelle's best interest at heart and thought he was making the choices that were best for her at the time.

    If Danny was a true stage parent, I don't think Michele would have had the career she had, the genuine love of skating, nor the fond memories and ability to lead a life past skating into something that is pretty successful. I know there are degrees of stage parenting, and I think parents have to be the ones to put their foot down and make their children be more disciplined in order to succeed (even if it means forcing the skaters to train on days they are tired and don't want to), but to me there's a difference between being a disciplined parent and being a stage parent. The latter, to me, is living vicariously through your child or forcing your child to do something that is ultimately detrimental for their emotional or psychological (maybe at times physical) well-being in the long-term for your own gain without much regard for the child's wishes. I don't think there's a doubt at all that Michelle Kwan wanted to skate and compete at the highest level she could achieve. This isn't a AP McDonough situation (where she clearly looked miserable) and this wasn't an Andre Agassi situation either (where he had success but seriously hated tennis at a point in time that wasn't clear to outsiders).

    Anyway, by the time Michelle Kwan left Frank, she was a 21 year-old woman with some college education and experience living independently not to mention a great chunk of money to be set for life. I know Asian families have strong ties (I know from first-hand experience), but I really doubt Michelle would have done anything she didn't believe to be the right decision for herself at that point in her life.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 02-26-2014 at 05:53 AM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  8. #88
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    nj/ny
    Posts
    1,430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Well here's an article that goes into more detail about Frank and Christopher:

    http://content.time.com/time/nation/...703048,00.html

    It's very sad.

  9. #89
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't remember hearing that it was Danny's idea for Kwan to take the senior test. Anyway, as much flack as Danny Kwan gets, Frank Carroll says that Danny Kwan made choices that reasonable parents would make. Not that they always worked out, but Frank said that he has no doubt that Danny had Michelle's best interest at heart and thought he was making the choices that were best for her at the time.
    it was the very first Kwan question jenny asks him and he says he was told it was her idea, but he suspects it was Danny's. It wasn't said in a mean or cutting way. In fact I think he chuckled.

    This was my whole point about the whole thing. 97 is the best example. Most of the press spun it as nerves after being the champ for the first time. But internet gossip kept blaming it on the boot deal, but said in a more accusatory way, making Danny seem more greedy than wise. I was surprised to hear frank confirm it was all because of the boot deal, even if he did, as you say, explain it in a way that made Danny seem well intensioned and having Michelle's best interest in mind. He further explains that he wants to adjust one blade right before nats, but Danny says no because he thinks change will rattle michelle. Again, it's told in a soft, parent looking out for their kid way, but really, what's the point of even telling it other than to come up with one more example of how frank knew best and Danny wouldn't listen. I agree with whomever called the interview "passive aggressive".

  10. #90

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,019
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    it was the very first Kwan question jenny asks him and he says he was told it was her idea, but he suspects it was Danny's. It wasn't said in a mean or cutting way. In fact I think he chuckled.

    This was my whole point about the whole thing. 97 is the best example. Most of the press spun it as nerves after being the champ for the first time. But internet gossip kept blaming it on the boot deal, but said in a more accusatory way, making Danny seem more greedy than wise. I was surprised to hear frank confirm it was all because of the boot deal, even if he did, as you say, explain it in a way that made Danny seem well intensioned and having Michelle's best interest in mind. He further explains that he wants to adjust one blade right before nats, but Danny says no because he thinks change will rattle michelle. Again, it's told in a soft, parent looking out for their kid way, but really, what's the point of even telling it other than to come up with one more example of how frank knew best and Danny wouldn't listen. I agree with whomever called the interview "passive aggressiveL".
    I hate to say it, but I think in terms of equipment, training etc, coach does KNOW best. Frank has years of experience after all and isn't that what he's paid with. if the coach thinks the blade needs to be adjusted, it should be adjusted.

    Look, I'm not saying at all that parents shouldn't be aware of what's going on. But the parent isn't a skating expert. I'm reminded of Tarasova saying Sasha should drop out of the cheesefest and focus on the GPF.

    I don't blame Tarasova for having enough.

  11. #91
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    835
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Well here's an article that goes into more detail about Frank and Christopher:

    http://content.time.com/time/nation/...703048,00.html

    It's very sad.
    Thanks for that link. I'd forgotten the rawness and depth of Frank's pain when this happened. No wonder he withdrew from making such intense personal connections with his subsequent skaters.

  12. #92

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Skateland
    Posts
    7,841
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    bronze and gracie's 4th place is not a gold medal- never will be
    Maybe she can change her name to Gracie Pewter? Well, Gracie is good enough to challenge for a medal next month at Worlds, so she'll get closer to her real surname (Gold).
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  13. #93

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    399
    I wonder what Frank would have to say about Kori Ade's coaching style? Jason has said on multiple occasions that Kori is like a 2nd mom to him, and they're very close. She practically helped raise him, after all. I know every skater has different needs, but do you think Jason might benefit more from someone like Frank? Personally, I think Kori has done wonders for him.

  14. #94
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,013
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't think Jason would benefit from someone like Frank. I think he needs a coach who is connected to his emotional needs. (He's the only skater I've ever heard of who gets/gives multiple -hugs- during a lesson.)

    Besides, USFS is going to be in a world of hurt, if they don't develop other coaches into elite coaches. Frank won't be around forever. They need more senior elite coaches. And unlike Zakrajsek, Ade doesn't seem to break her students (though I guess the sample size is smaller).

  15. #95
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Besides, USFS is going to be in a world of hurt, if they don't develop other coaches into elite coaches. Frank won't be around forever. They need more senior elite coaches. And unlike Zakrajsek, Ade doesn't seem to break her students (though I guess the sample size is smaller).
    interesting. Whom do you think is potentially the heir to the lussi-fassi-carol crown? Or maybe we're just more about one hit wonders. Owen, brunet, laws, lever, ness, Callaghan, Wagner, etc... With such a depth of talent, do we perhaps not even need "the great one"?

  16. #96
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,013
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Whom do you think is potentially the heir to the lussi-fassi-carol crown?
    I don't really think there is one, because for so long the trend has become to leave your coach to go to the elite coach.
    I think that Zakrajsek and Arturian might be at about that level right now. It looked like maybe Yuka and Jason would reach the top coach status, but I think that they faltered a bit.

    Either way, I don't think USFS should encourage coach hopping as much as they seem to. Perhaps collaboration should become more common.

  17. #97
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Either way, I don't think USFS should encourage coach hopping as much as they seem to. Perhaps collaboration should become more common.
    i tend to agree, but i think it totally depends on the trajectory. Is all the hoping an uphill climb like it was for Fleming, or more wheel spinning like it seemed to be for bobeck. I actually think Ashley improved noticeable with each switch until the most recent.

  18. #98

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    near Chicago
    Posts
    2,040
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    259
    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Maybe she can change her name to Gracie Pewter? Well, Gracie is good enough to challenge for a medal next month at Worlds, so she'll get closer to her real surname (Gold).
    I hope so!

  19. #99
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,531
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by marialynn View Post
    yes it was-I never liked frank's style of coaching- especially the women skaters-he stresses on the artistic and never ever on the more difficult jumps-in the 90's i guess this was ok but not in today's skating world- please retire frank
    well ,doesn't his new pupil brought her technical abilities to frank from another coach?

  20. #100
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,215
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    It looked like maybe Yuka and Jason would reach the top coach status, but I think that they faltered a bit.
    Do you think that Yuka and Jason will continue to coach together?

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •