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  1. #1

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    Frank Carroll: The Skate Whisperer

    Fascinating article about Frank: provides insight into his methods and why some skaters thrived under him (Kwan, Lysacek) and why things didn't go as well with others (Chin, Bowman, Nagasu):

    http://deadspin.com/the-coach-who-do...s-i-1525870117
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

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    I wish someone would do a more extensive article on frank. Reading this I wanted more info on Jenny, Carolina, surya, d10, etc...

    I was a little surprised by Jenny's interview with manleywoman. Here is someone struggling with personal problems, yet iirc she only had nice things to say about the "I'm not your father!" Frank and "I'm a hockey coach bully" Evy, but totally threw "I'll manage every aspect of your life" Callaghan under the bus as a sham.

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    snarking for AZE
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    i'd like to hear more about that colonel tom parker deal he had with tim goebel and other skaters that tim mentioned on TSL. frank will get up in your life when it is time to get paid.
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

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    I think that his explanation of the difference between a "teacher" and a "coach" is important; and telling.

    FC expects those he coaches to be responsible for their own actions and behavior,
    It's refreshing,

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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    i'd like to hear more about that colonel tom parker deal he had with tim goebel and other skaters that tim mentioned on TSL. frank will get up in your life when it is time to get paid.
    While that was interesting, yet not surprising, I think Tim was being less than honest in that interview about why Frank fired him.
    Not that he had to reveal anything, mind you.
    There must be something about special about Frank if Kwan, Kirk, and others still have so much respect for him.

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    Seems Frank's technique is great when you have skaters who are naturally driven and hard-working. But I do think the mark of a successful coach is being able to work with different, even difficult personalities and also get them to where they need to be.

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    Good interview!
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

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    Very good interview. I wish Patrick had gone to Frank. With the right mindset he would probably be OGM by now. Chan had too many people messing with his head, plus he wanted it too much. I think Frank would have set him straight - no time for all that nonsense. Just train and do your job.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Seems Frank's technique is great when you have skaters who are naturally driven and hard-working. But I do think the mark of a successful coach is being able to work with different, even difficult personalities and also get them to where they need to be.
    I disagree. These coaches are no different than everyday people. Certain types gravitate toward and work best with certain types of personalities. It is rare that you have types that can work well and bring out the best in all types. The mark of a "successful" coach depends on what you define as "successful". A coach can only do so much. The other part depends on the skater. If a skater comes to a coach like Frank, know what he expects, and bucks his system then it is not on him but the skater. Let's not forget, the skaters/parents seek out these coaches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Seems Frank's technique is great when you have skaters who are naturally driven and hard-working. But I do think the mark of a successful coach is being able to work with different, even difficult personalities and also get them to where they need to be.
    Some skaters have problems (either their parents, or their own problems) that require help other than what a coach can give them. It's true that if he says, "I don't want whining, I want training," it may be hard on a skater. But the reality is if they do otherwise they won't succeed. He is also wise not to engage emotionally. The most successful people (in any field) also practice this principle. I understand him booting people from his training, esp those who display hostile behavior towards him. He is a top notch coach and if a student wastes time they are taking away an opportunity for another hardworking athlete to reach their potential. But, there are so many coaches out there, so hopefully everyone can find what they are looking for.

  11. #11
    Port de bras!!!
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    "When Michelle Kwan was at the top of her game, she was a rock star in our country. You have no idea," he told me. "I mean, I have been walking down streets with her in cities when people start screaming and chasing her. You would think it was Elvis Presley or something."

    When a skater reaches heights like that, he said, "it draws them away from the connection with you sometimes. They have the media and the world telling them they're an angel sent by god down to the earth to perform, and you're the cranky old man in the ice rink saying, 'You know what, I didn't like the way you just did that triple flip.' And so it does drive a little bit of a wedge between you."

    Oooooh, zing! Wasn't it the 3F that brought Kwan down at SLC?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Yup it was a triple flip that had been wonky in the short that killed Michelle in the long.

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    As Frank once said to Mirai, "nobody died".

    At Frank's age he can pick and chose who he takes as a student. There is a reason he turned down Ashley.

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    Port de bras!!!
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    I didn't realize Ashley wanted to be coached by Frank, when was this?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    After she left Priscilla, she went around the country shopping for coaches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Very good interview. I wish Patrick had gone to Frank. With the right mindset he would probably be OGM by now. Chan had too many people messing with his head, plus he wanted it too much. I think Frank would have set him straight - no time for all that nonsense. Just train and do your job.
    I don't think it would have worked. Frank wants you to do what he says during lessons etc. Chan wants to run his own show Not a match made in heaven!

    I doubt he's a saint, but as far as the Parker dealing.. he's probably less guilty of that mess then the USFSA as a whole. The "tone at the top" was "do what Parker" wants....

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    I think that his explanation of the difference between a "teacher" and a "coach" is important; and telling.

    FC expects those he coaches to be responsible for their own actions and behavior,
    It's refreshing,
    It is refreshing and the way it should be, but I challenge you to find a parent who is willing to accept this. Most parents nowadays expect the coach to do everything, be everything, and get personally involved. It's sad.

    By allowing the coach to teach responsibility and independence, which Frank seems to do, the coach is ultimately developing a stronger competitor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twizzler View Post
    It is refreshing and the way it should be, but I challenge you to find a parent who is willing to accept this. Most parents nowadays expect the coach to do everything, be everything, and get personally involved. It's sad.

    By allowing the coach to teach responsibility and independence, which Frank seems to do, the coach is ultimately developing a stronger competitor.
    Bingo. I forgot if I mentioned this last post, but I teach in an artistic field. Nowadays the parents I work with more often expect "results" and that "the teacher is responsible" for producing those results; neither they nor their child should have to put in a lick of work or follow the teacher's advice. And they expect the teacher to yell at/parent their child. Those students are not going to be able to function in the world when they grow up. Those parents also (in my experience) ruin the reputation of whomever they are studying with. So FC is definitely making the right call to nip things like that in the bud.

    Coaches/teachers are powerless to change the way a child is brought up by their parents. The results can only be produced when the right conditions have been set at home (the child understands work ethic and personal responsibility), and the student is in the right place, physically and mentally, to work hard and be receptive to what their coach is saying. Just my 2c from dealing with this.

    Anyway with FC, reading this article, I found that he says the same thing as the top teachers/artists in my field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Oooooh, zing! Wasn't it the 3F that brought Kwan down at SLC?
    Shame too. Her triple Flips at Nats the month before and at Worlds the month later were pretty nice. She had an unusual psych block on the Flip in SLC.

    I guess it happens. Irina had trouble with her second flip in the Torino LP and her usual money jump, the loop, failed her.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    While that was interesting, yet not surprising, I think Tim was being less than honest in that interview about why Frank fired him.
    Not that he had to reveal anything, mind you.
    There must be something about special about Frank if Kwan, Kirk, and others still have so much respect for him.
    He seemed to make a lot of accusations about frank that jenny didn't lift a finger to support, yet she had no trouble chiming right in on the dick-bashing rant. Despite the name calling, I think Tim got off easy as he didn't really get anywhere in skating after frank. I can't believe the kwans continued to pay frank a cut all those years she made mad cash after she left him, as the haters insisted that greed is what drove her to fire him.

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