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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk9tingfan View Post
    No, her original SP was done by Zueva to Gershwin's preludes(unfortunately, the violin version) with the new SP done by Lori Nichol. The long program, I believe was originally done by Scott Williams and probably tweaked by Nichol.
    Do you mean Scott Brown? And I read that Marina Zueva did her long program, too.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I'd love to see more women try for the Triple Axel, but I think there's a real reason why it hasn't caught on as much despite it being the hot jump of the late 80s/early 90s and with two Olympic cycles of Mao Asada attempting them. Of course, it's not all physical, as the IJS is very responsible for rewarding correct jump technique, full rotations, height and distance, and maximizing your limited number of jumping passes. Skaters first need to get the jump technique down before they start putting forth a disproportionate amount of training time on getting the 3 Axel.

    Adelina didn't win OGM due to having a 3 Axel, she won due to the quality of her jumps and maximizing her points with combinations. Her spins also put her over the top. Having the 3 Axel hasn't helped Mao win any titles for the past 3 seasons.
    She also won because she was Russian. However I do see your point, but my point is that now both Adelina and Lipnitskaya are level 4 footwork, all level 4 spins, 7 triple jumps, 2nd half bonus a lot of them, +2 and +3 every element, and PCS close to 10's when they skate well. As a competitor who wants to beat that, there really isn't much window is there? You would need a triple axel on top of all of those things to make sure you can compete with that if those ladies go clean. The triple axel in the short is the technical window. These are the 2 ladies that are projected to dominate the next 4 years, and they're already there with the scores in every way possible and both have an OGM with plenty of room to grow. There are at least 4 Russians with the talent to match them at some point soon, I'd say Gracie and Polina from the US, maybe Satako or a couple others from around the World.. I see a triple axel in the near future by a new lady.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    She also won because she was Russian. However I do see your point, but my point is that now both Adelina and Lipnitskaya are level 4 footwork, all level 4 spins, 7 triple jumps, 2nd half bonus a lot of them, +2 and +3 every element, and PCS close to 10's when they skate well. As a competitor who wants to beat that, there really isn't much window is there? You would need a triple axel on top of all of those things to make sure you can compete with that if those ladies go clean.
    I don't get this logic? Not every competition is held in Russia, so those 2 certainly won't see such huge GOE's consistently. It makes more sense for Gracie to continue to hone her consistency, improve her refinement/maturity/choreography and try to make sure all her levels are maximized (like footwork) as opposed to trying for something like a triple axel based on anticipation that some future girl (who has yet to emerge) will do a triple axel


    These are the 2 ladies that are projected to dominate the next 4 years, and they're already there with the scores in every way possible and both have an OGM with plenty of room to grow. There are at least 4 Russians with the talent to match them at some point soon, I'd say Gracie and Polina from the US, maybe Satako or a couple others from around the World.. I see a triple axel in the near future by a new lady.
    I'm not discounting medals won in the new team competition, but I still have to LMAO at people who are referring to people as "Olympic gold medalists" based on the team competition. It's not the same thing, yet you're treating it as such. At least make the distinction.
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 02-26-2014 at 04:13 AM.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    ...

    I'm not discounting medals won in the new team competition, but I still have to LMAO at people who are referring to people as "Olympic gold medalists" based on the team competition. It's not the same thing, yet you're treating it as such. At least make the distinction.
    Well, actually you are discounting their gold medal. Do you consider the players on the two Canadian hockey teams gold medalists? The fact is, the teams that won medals in the figure skating team event ARE Olympic medalists. That means Julia is a gold medalist, Kevin Reynolds is a silver medalist, and Ashley is a bronze medalist - whether you like it or not.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Well, actually you are discounting their gold medal. Do you consider the players on the two Canadian hockey teams gold medalists? The fact is, the teams that won medalsli in the figure skating team event ARE Olympic medalists. That means Julia is a gold medalist, Kevin Reynolds is a silver medalist, and Ashley is a bronze medalist - whether you like it or not.
    I clearly noted with my last sentence that the issue was not making a distinction between Julia's gold and Adelina's gold, even if technically they're both gold medallists.
    And hockey =/= skating

    In the context of this discussion, that user mentioned Olympic gold specifically as a means to reinforce the stature of the 2 Russian's skating careers, but no one in their right mind would say that Julia's gold and Adelina's gold are the same. Julia has a team gold and Adelina has an individual gold. Would anyone say that Julia's career trumps Kwan's at the Olympics because "she has an Olympic gold medal" and Kwan doesn't? Not making that distinction is both misleading to newer fans and even unfair to older skaters who competed before the team competition was created. I mean, this is a skating forum where people dissect skaters' careers and hardware down to the most minute detail.
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 02-26-2014 at 05:26 AM.

  6. #86
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    Julia skated two clean programs in the team event. If she had done the same in the individual and Adelina wasn't the only Russian skating well, her scores would have been higher than in the team event. I'm willing to bet her scores would have been comparable to Adelina and she would've been at least 2nd.

    As for the GOE comment, you really think after these Olympic results and scores that Adelina and Lipnitskaya will score much lower? Everyone else is retiring and its very possible the pcs and GOE for these two will probably get even higher. These Olympic scores will be justification, they will both only grow artistically over time.

    Anyways I'm not posting what i predict and think for the sake of arguing, I just think we will see a triple axel soon.

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    I think if Julia had done really well in the individual event w/ scores similar to the team event, we may have seen Adelina w/ an edge call on the lutz, UR call on the 3toe, and lower PCS

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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Well, actually you are discounting their gold medal. Do you consider the players on the two Canadian hockey teams gold medalists? The fact is, the teams that won medals in the figure skating team event ARE Olympic medalists. That means Julia is a gold medalist, Kevin Reynolds is a silver medalist, and Ashley is a bronze medalist - whether you like it or not.
    You are right Julia is a Gold medalist. Just because the Team event is new does not diminish the achievement.

    Aly Raisman and Jordan Wieber are Olympic Gold medalists too. But Gabby Douglas is the Golden Girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I think if Julia had done really well in the individual event w/ scores similar to the team event, we may have seen Adelina w/ an edge call on the lutz, UR call on the 3toe, and lower PCS
    Agreed

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    run faster
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I think if Julia had done really well in the individual event w/ scores similar to the team event, we may have seen Adelina w/ an edge call on the lutz, UR call on the 3toe, and lower PCS

    Her 3toes where over orated not under rotated , I simply can't understand this argument...

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    Julia skated two clean programs in the team event. If she had done the same in the individual and Adelina wasn't the only Russian skating well, her scores would have been higher than in the team event. I'm willing to bet her scores would have been comparable to Adelina and she would've been at least 2nd.
    That speaks even more volumes to the corruption of the Sochi judging. Atleast Adelina who was gifted a bogus Olympic gold has some pretty big jumps, pretty good spins, and some nice aspects of artistry. A little girl with awful jumps, no artistry, slow, and nothing good but spins winning over a clean 7 triple Kim and Kostner would be something I cant even describe. Didnt she fall twice and have higher PCS than Mao. The Olympic results in every discipline should be annuled, it was Russian Nationals and anyone else there was a foreign invader who dare to show up. I look forward to the Russians getting a taste of reality at worlds in Japan.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I think if Julia had done really well in the individual event w/ scores similar to the team event, we may have seen Adelina w/ an edge call on the lutz, UR call on the 3toe, and lower PCS
    I have a feeling that had Julia replicated her Team Event performances for the Ladies competition, Adelina would have been Bobrova/Solovieved. Or maybe Adelina would have scored the same and Russia would have went 1-2. Either way, I bet people would easily be able to find arguments supporting either a moderate score for Adelina or the unprecedented high scores and GOEs she received.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Her 3toes where over orated not under rotated , I simply can't understand this argument...
    On the replays it clearly showed that Adelina's 3 toe on the lutz combo was well beyond 1/4 turn short - possibly even a half - and the lutz had a really significant edge change. At a minimum that toe should have been called for under-rotation and I think potentially even downgraded. That would have narrowed the gap a lot as she would have also lost significant GOE with a lower base mark.

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    Personally, while her programs are really bland to me, I don't see Gracie as any inferior to Adelina or Yulia (who she's already beaten at the Olympics despite Yulia's massive inflation in the individual). Frankly if clean, I see her "overtaking" them as soon as the upcoming Worlds. I do hope she has programs that better showcase her personality though - she doesn't really seem to sincerely get into/feel her current programs.

  16. #96
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    Gracie may get pushed domestically too with Polina's more demanding jumps and musicality. I wonder if Gracie
    would go back to trying a 3f - 3sal seq. or a Rippon Lutz to compete w/ her

  17. #97

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    I was really impressed with Gracie's ability to cope at the Olympics. First the top of her costume came undone in the Team FS. Then Frank went missing with a huge nose bleed , returning at the last minute before she took the ice for the SP. It is not surprising she was a bit tight in that SP. Yes, she fell on the flip in the individual FS, but that's a jump where she is trying to fix her technique to avoid an edge call, and that effort often leads to falls at first.

    I hope she gets really great programs next year.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I find that with Gracie everything appears so rehearsed and very much like a pageant queen. She was very tight and cautious at the Olympics and on the defense. She needs to attack and execute everything full out with all of her energy, much like Adelina did at the Olympics and like she did at Nationals in Boston.
    ^^Very astute comment IMO.
    Someone said on a thread somewhere that Gracie just bugs the $hit out of them..................well, me too.
    Don't know what it is....it think I just find her inauthentic. Lipinski, Sotnikova, Baiul, (even) Hughes....grabbed that Olympic moment with guts, gusto and authentic joy. Gracie, not so much.

    Now, having said that, I have been very impressed with the changes that team Gold made with the move to Frank.
    I, actually, don't think she has to do a whole heck of a lot to stay / be on top. Edmonds may outskate her (eventually). But, I think that is about it from the USA - if Gracie can continue to put together two clean programs. I love Ashley Wagner, but she is going to really have to fix her technical performance.

    Adelina needs to prove herself, and be consistent. Julia, if she has two programs like she did this year, will, I think beat a clean Gracie. Other than that, it is kind of it.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    ^^Very astute comment IMO.
    Someone said on a thread somewhere that Gracie just bugs the $hit out of them..................well, me too.
    Don't know what it is....it think I just find her inauthentic. Lipinski, Sotnikova, Baiul, (even) Hughes....grabbed that Olympic moment with guts, gusto and authentic joy. Gracie, not so much.

    Now, having said that, I have been very impressed with the changes that team Gold made with the move to Frank.
    I, actually, don't think she has to do a whole heck of a lot to stay / be on top. Edmonds may outskate her (eventually). But, I think that is about it from the USA - if Gracie can continue to put together two clean programs. I love Ashley Wagner, but she is going to really have to fix her technical performance.

    Adelina needs to prove herself, and be consistent. Julia, if she has two programs like she did this year, will, I think beat a clean Gracie. Other than that, it is kind of it.
    IMO, she has an on-ice demeanor similar to Rosalynn Sumners; cool, reserved blonde, not really wearing the heart on the sleeve. Maybe a little icy. I wasn't a fan of Roz, but I am warming to Gracie (Right now, I still prefer Ashley and her gutsiness of all the top US ladies, though)

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I'd love to see more women try for the Triple Axel, but I think there's a real reason why it hasn't caught on as much despite it being the hot jump of the late 80s/early 90s and with two Olympic cycles of Mao Asada attempting them. Of course, it's not all physical, as the IJS is very responsible for rewarding correct jump technique, full rotations, height and distance, and maximizing your limited number of jumping passes. Skaters first need to get the jump technique down before they start putting forth a disproportionate amount of training time on getting the 3 Axel.

    Adelina didn't win OGM due to having a 3 Axel, she won due to the quality of her jumps and maximizing her points with combinations. Her spins also put her over the top. Having the 3 Axel hasn't helped Mao win any titles for the past 3 seasons.
    Women don't do the 3A because there has never been a push for them to do it - not because they can't do it.

    If more did it, and more landed it, and more coaches knew how to train it - then more would attempt it and more would succeed.

    The ladies fields stagnates technically so much more than the men, unfortunately- which IMO make them less exciting. A 3T/3T has become standard for the top skaters, with other triple/triples such as 3L/3T being less common.

    And Miki Ando is proof that women can land quads, too.

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