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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddtpdx View Post
    perhaps i'm in the minority, but i love the new dress.

    i also wish them a wonderful skate like yesterday and create another moment for themselves.
    the new ending with them facing each other on the second last accent of the music reflects that beautifully.
    I love their look and they seem to be in the right mindset.

    I wish the stupid judging thing had been left until after the competition because it doesn't help VM perform. Had the damned marks been closer, we wouldn't be listening to this stuff, but the lowballing of marks is a relentless thing - the judges just won't give it up. It matters little whether it is an accurate reflection of what happened on the ice. I guess if I were mean I could hope DW trip, either on their own or Marina's ego, but while I might get a momentary pleasure out of it, I can't bring myself to wish ill on anyone, so I hope everyone skates clean. I do however see little future for Ice Dance at the Olympics.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    On Russian TV commentators said - they will not go to WCH, after OG they will made show in Moscow.

    So, today is day of last VM dance/ This will happened in few hours, so i am crying.
    Thank you for all you done for ice dance, for every your amazing program wich was a gifts for long time ice dancing fan, for that moment of joy you gave me, when i saw you "live" in Torino, Moscow, Nice, CoR and GFF last season. For all your hard work, especially in this last 4 years, for show us so many different dances, new elements, steps. For how you respect your fans and your competitiors. Hope you will stay in sport and will be coaching, or made choreo, or doing shows. I hope to see your skaters will win OG someday!
    Lets dance today for each other, for all this long years with ups and downs, for your amazing moms and families. Just have your moment.
    Good luck to you, my brave hearts! Love you and will alwayse re-watching your amazing programs.
    Oh, we second that, pani! Can't believe it will be over soon. Tears will be shed.

  3. #43
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    Yeah sorry I know that we should stop talking about the marks I was just thinking about it a lot last night.

    I can't wait to see their FD today and I hope they can create a moment that they will remember forever.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by canbelto View Post
    Psst guys don't you know? The girl has a name, Quinn, or is it Charlotte?

    Seriously though I think the blogger has some major major boundary issues. Her determination that Tessa and Scott must be hiding a baby in the dungeon takes shipping to an uncomfortable level, and all those cutouts she made remind me of a serial killer collage. It's creepy.
    I thought Scott had two nieces named Quinn and Charlotte. ??

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Skating678;4170325]Everybody keeps focusing on the L3 on the finnstep as supposedly the reason T&S did not win last night. But even if they had gotten a L4, they would still be 1.56 points behind D&W. How do you explain the PCS and GOE difference? What could T&S have done differently to improve their scores in those areas? Nobody has an answer to this.

    I wish that the ISU was able to answer these types of questions. And if T&S lost a level in the finnstep, what was the reason for that? Was it a specific edge that they missed or a step? If so, what step was incorrect? I don't understand why they can't provide some kind of explanation when calls like this are made. And yes the logistics of making this info public would be a challenge - would they do it for every single skater? would they have to keep notes? etc. But I think part of the problem is that the Canadian media is screaming wuzrobbed right now because there seems to be no legitimate explanation for those 2.56 points. "They lost a level." Okay. Where? Why? What about the other 1.56 points?
    I mean, even if a commentator or ice dance insider could explain it, but they never seem to be able to. Instead we get these "I'm not a judge" comments and the public is left wondering how ice dance can be a sport if nobody is able to make sense of the results.

    On CBC last night after they re-aired the short dance Ron MacLean brought up the judging issue. In some ways it was kind of ridiculous b/c Ron MacLean obviously knows nothing about ice dance. But then he was showing T&S reaction in the k&c and comparing it to S/P's reaction to their marks in 2002, he brought up the tweet from the finnstep creators, and mentioned the L'Equipe article. This whole thing is blowing up.



    It could be on the protocols. Easy mentioned in markings next to elements or in notes. The protocols are the report cards

  6. #46

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    LOve the thread title, Emdee. Simple but yet it comes all the way from deep down the heart. Thank you indeed to the two most exquisite dancers.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  7. #47
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    I hope V&M have a kick ass skate today so they can finish their career feeling good about what they accomplished, no matter what the medal colour. I look forward to seeing them at Stars on Ice!

  8. #48
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    I kind of want to thank the judges for making the final result so clear last night, rather than torturing Tessa & Scott any further with false hope.

    I wish the guy from Freakonomics who researched/investigated cheating in Sumo Wrestling by analyzing the numbers would take a crack at the Ice Dance results.

  9. #49
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    I kind of want to thank the judges for making the final result so clear last night, rather than torturing Tessa & Scott any further with false hope.
    It's kind of funny that it's resulted in the nicest and most pleasant this thread has been in quite a while, LOL.

  10. #50
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    I wish that the ISU was able to answer these types of questions. And if T&S lost a level in the finnstep, what was the reason for that? Was it a specific edge that they missed or a step? If so, what step was incorrect? I don't understand why they can't provide some kind of explanation when calls like this are made. And yes the logistics of making this info public would be a challenge - would they do it for every single skater? would they have to keep notes? etc. But I think part of the problem is that the Canadian media is screaming wuzrobbed right now because there seems to be no legitimate explanation for those 2.56 points. "They lost a level." Okay. Where? Why? What about the other 1.56 points?
    I mean, even if a commentator or ice dance insider could explain it, but they never seem to be able to. Instead we get these "I'm not a judge" comments and the public is left wondering how ice dance can be a sport if nobody is able to make sense of the results.
    This is a big problem. When that IceDanceAnalyst blog broke down some of the keypoints where it appeared D&W might have had a generous call, it was all "that screencap doesn't prove anything, it's not the camera angle the caller has." And that's true. Even if someone was in the arena live, if they were not sitting where the caller is they wouldn't have the same view, and even if the call is wrong, they would only have their own memory to rely on.

    If this is so technical, why don't they do a close-up, slo mo shot of each key point on the jumbotron or even make it available online? I know that the general audience would not be interested in this, but why not let ice dance nerds review it from the caller's POV if they want? The jumbotron will usually show takeoffs or landings of questionable jumps (wrong edge/UR) and the commentators usually will explain whether the jump would be credited. If we can tell an edge for a flip or lutz we can see an exit edge from a twizzle too, probably just not in real time for most of us because the dance is so fast and the angles are bad.

    And for the footwork sequences, the most we ever get to know is "they lost a level." Ok, but how, and why? I love this breakdown of V&M's midline in their SD: http://icedanceanalysts.blogspot.com...-sequence.html

    This treats ice dance like a sport and doesn't treat fans like complete morons. I would love to have a breakdown of all the steps and turns in D&W and V&M's footwork sequences and a checkmark next to each turn that has been counted as clean. Then I would love to understand how D&W got better GOE for that element... which turns of V&M were not on deep curves such that they only got +1 from one judge and then a mix of +2 and +3 while D&W got one +2 and the rest +3? What was better about D&W's? How was D&W's Finnstep worthy of more GOE when V&M had a big pattern, lots of speed, superior body position and hold, and D&W were off time?

    It seems that just because something is written in a protocol we're supposed to accepts its legitimacy... but what I want to know is how the actual skating relates to that protocol. It's like we're idiots that are supposed to think "OMG, it's a piece of paper, with NUMBERS! It's so byzantine and technical, how could we minions possibly understand?"

    This gold is lost for V&M but I'm more concerned about how this will effect dance going forward. I see some of the younger American and Russian teams already picking up D&W's bad habits. There's no impetus to dance well or really hit an edge anymore, and let's not even talk about posture and line. So I at least will give it up to V&M for being uncompromising and exacting in their standards. Even though I sometimes wished they would have made things easier on themselves in terms of difficult transitions and elements, I really respect that they've given us some brilliant programs the last four years and fit the IJS rulebook like a glove.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by princeton123 View Post
    It's kind of funny that it's resulted in the nicest and most pleasant this thread has been in quite a while, LOL.
    We've reached a state of zen where only the positive exists.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddtpdx View Post
    perhaps i'm in the minority, but i love the new dress.

    i also wish them a wonderful skate like yesterday and create another moment for themselves.
    the new ending with them facing each other on the second last accent of the music reflects that beautifully.
    No you're not. I think the dress and the whole look is stunning. I even like Scott in the all black. I can't believe this is it, how can I handle it? Anyways beautifully said pani and kill it Tessa and Scott!
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  13. #53

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    I totally agree with Manaud - we are always left wondering. Couples sit in the K&C with their coaches and far too often have no idea until the marks come up. We are rarely shown what the reasons were - except if it is a bobble in the twizzles. No wonder there is an outcry - especially if the part that is supposed to be a true comparison - dance steps where everyone is doing the same ones - make a huge difference but what they are looking for seems to vary from panel to panel. Sadly, even the creator of the Finn step now supposedly is not an expert. Enough - great thread title - time to enjoy!
    pug lover

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    This is a big problem. When that IceDanceAnalyst blog broke down some of the keypoints where it appeared D&W might have had a generous call, it was all "that screencap doesn't prove anything, it's not the camera angle the caller has." And that's true. Even if someone was in the arena live, if they were not sitting where the caller is they wouldn't have the same view, and even if the call is wrong, they would only have their own memory to rely on.

    If this is so technical, why don't they do a close-up, slo mo shot of each key point on the jumbotron or even make it available online? I know that the general audience would not be interested in this, but why not let ice dance nerds review it from the caller's POV if they want? The jumbotron will usually show takeoffs or landings of questionable jumps (wrong edge/UR) and the commentators usually will explain whether the jump would be credited. If we can tell an edge for a flip or lutz we can see an exit edge from a twizzle too, probably just not in real time for most of us because the dance is so fast and the angles are bad.

    And for the footwork sequences, the most we ever get to know is "they lost a level." Ok, but how, and why? I love this breakdown of V&M's midline in their SD: http://icedanceanalysts.blogspot.com...-sequence.html

    This treats ice dance like a sport and doesn't treat fans like complete morons. I would love to have a breakdown of all the steps and turns in D&W and V&M's footwork sequences and a checkmark next to each turn that has been counted as clean. Then I would love to understand how D&W got better GOE for that element... which turns of V&M were not on deep curves such that they only got +1 from one judge and then a mix of +2 and +3 while D&W got one +2 and the rest +3? What was better about D&W's? How was D&W's Finnstep worthy of more GOE when V&M had a big pattern, lots of speed, superior body position and hold, and D&W were off time?

    It seems that just because something is written in a protocol we're supposed to accepts its legitimacy... but what I want to know is how the actual skating relates to that protocol. It's like we're idiots that are supposed to think "OMG, it's a piece of paper, with NUMBERS! It's so byzantine and technical, how could we minions possibly understand?"

    This gold is lost for V&M but I'm more concerned about how this will effect dance going forward. I see some of the younger American and Russian teams already picking up D&W's bad habits. There's no impetus to dance well or really hit an edge anymore, and let's not even talk about posture and line. So I at least will give it up to V&M for being uncompromising and exacting in their standards. Even though I sometimes wished they would have made things easier on themselves in terms of difficult transitions and elements, I really respect that they've given us some brilliant programs the last four years and fit the IJS rulebook like a glove.
    Yes. To all of this.

    Let us see the judges POV. We are not morons, we can tell a flat from a deep edge, even a slightly deep edge or a slightly flat edge. We can tell turns, we can tell transitions. Why can't we see what they see? I'm not asking to be a judge, I'm asking for the judging to be transparent. At the same time, this new perspective would educate us more and educate the new fans. Everyone wins.

  15. #55

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    Alex and Mitch 8 points or so lower then their season's best with a good skate - hope the Canadian teams don't pay for this going forward.
    pug lover

  16. #56
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    Do the skaters get an opportunity to find out from the callers where they lost levels? I wonder if V/M even know at this point what supposedly occurred?

    For those who don't have PBP access, the FD thread is called 2014 OG FD - The Adventures Of Marina: Queen Of The (Kiss & Cry) Desert Then underneath: "LOVE! LOVE, DAHLINGS! Now I have to go and help your biggest rivals beat you!"

    It helps to be able to laugh at this situation.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post
    Alex and Mitch 8 points or so lower then their season's best with a good skate - hope the Canadian teams don't pay for this going forward.
    LOL jeez, did a Canadian sleep with Putin's mother or something..

  18. #58
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    New thread!! Can you put their last names in this thread

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by princeton123 View Post
    LOL jeez, did a Canadian sleep with Putin's mother or something..
    so rude

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    On Russian TV commentators said - they will not go to WCH, after OG they will made show in Moscow.

    So, today is day of last VM dance/ This will happened in few hours, so i am crying.
    Thank you for all you done for ice dance, for every your amazing program wich was a gifts for long time ice dancing fan, for that moment of joy you gave me, when i saw you "live" in Torino, Moscow, Nice, CoR and GFF last season. For all your hard work, especially in this last 4 years, for show us so many different dances, new elements, steps. For how you respect your fans and your competitiors. Hope you will stay in sport and will be coaching, or made choreo, or doing shows. I hope to see your skaters will win OG someday!
    Lets dance today for each other, for all this long years with ups and downs, for your amazing moms and families. Just have your moment.
    Good luck to you, my brave hearts! Love you and will alwayse re-watching your amazing programs.
    Well said Pani.
    I too hope they have their moment.

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