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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    I think they chose to stay because they saw what happened to B&A after leaving Marina.
    This is what I always thought as well. Leaving Marina would've been a huge risk. They may have benefited from it, but it easily could've hurt them as well. It's hard to say. Obviously Marina is very powerful in the ice dance world and they probably didn't want to make an unnecessary enemy.

  2. #422
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    Whatever the issues they certainly don't appear to have anything to do with Charlie. Those hugs from Tessa and Scott seemed really sincere. Nice to see Denny Morrison in the arena with Tessa and Scott, and to hear the support from the Canadian hockey guys.

  3. #423
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    So interesting to read that V/M approached Marina earlier in the season. I personally did not like the music cuts in Seasons and was surprised that someone with Marina's musical ear would create a program like that. I do think she cares for this team and she did say she would like to move like them (who wouldn't?) The problem is that when they were being underscored, she couldn't say so publicly without screwing over her other team. How could she point out V/M's strengths (e.g., extension, deep edges) without highlighting some of D/W's faults?

    In any case, according to the tv series, at the monitors at the SC training camp LOVED the FD. It was the SD they had problems with.

    I have to admit, as I was watching the Russians skate Swan Lake, I really wished I could have seen V/M do a voidy version of that piece.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonata View Post
    I have to admit, as I was watching the Russians skate Swan Lake, I really wished I could have seen V/M do a voidy version of that piece.
    I still cannot figure out why they did not do a ballet FD, since Tessa mentioned in the past that it was a dream of hers to do so.

    With Tessa's ballet training, and V/M's great line, posture and technical skills, a dramatic ballet FD choreographed with the help of Jennifer Swan would have been the perfect Olympic program for them, IMO.

  5. #425
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    So all the dirty laundry is getting aired out, eh? About time. Thank goodness for journalists to finally be asking good questions and Tessa and Scott being willing to open up about their struggles this past couple of seasons. We've been pointing out these problems all along and it feels good to know we weren't making things up (even when other VM fans doubted/belittled our concerns), though for Tessa and Scott's sake I wish we were wrong.

    I'm proud of them for leaving no stone unturned to get themselves into silver medal position. According to this Yahoo Sports article, they even tried to change their music to something that would compete better against Scheherazade but was denied by Marina -- but of course:

    The Canadian duo also approached Zoueva about switching their music to something that was comparable to the classical style of Davis and White
    I totally agree Tessa and Scott could have done Swan Lake justice... Every time the Sochi audience clapped for Elena and Nikita's FD music choice, I've been wishing the applause was for VM! Since they obviously don't have a Swan Lake gala piece, I really hope they bring back their Carmen FD for the exhibition. Pretty please! Just one last time???

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunhead View Post
    So all the dirty laundry is getting aired out, eh? About time. Thank goodness for journalists to finally be asking good questions and Tessa and Scott being willing to open up about their struggles this past couple of seasons. We've been pointing out these problems all along and it feels good to know we weren't making things up (even when other VM fans doubted/belittled our concerns), though for Tessa and Scott's sake I wish we were wrong.

    I'm proud of them for leaving no stone unturned to get themselves into silver medal position. According to this Yahoo Sports article, they even tried to change their music to something that would compete better against Scheherazade but was denied by Marina -- but of course:



    I totally agree Tessa and Scott could have done Swan Lake justice... Every time the Sochi audience clapped for Elena and Nikita's FD music choice, I've been wishing the applause was for VM! Since they obviously don't have a Swan Lake gala piece, I really hope they bring back their Carmen FD for the exhibition. Pretty please! Just one last time???
    When I was watching Swan Lake, I wished they had been skating Carmen in their black practice outfits. The Russian audience would have eaten it up!!!

  7. #427
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    Glad someone else saw that too. I wanted to see an error so badly, I thought I made it up. Didn't matter - they still scored way high.

  8. #428
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    Has anyone done CSOI meet and greet? Is it worth the price?

  9. #429
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    I wonder what other music Marina had chosen for them...

    My first indication that Marina started to prefer D/W: when she gave them music G/G had used in the past. She did it for V/M earlier and then out came Die Fledermaus... we should have known then, especially when followed up with Giselle, Katia's music! I know, it's a flimsy connection, but it's there, lol.

  10. #430
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    Well you know, it would have been brilliant if they had changed the music to Nutcracker
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4jcnFH0pR0

    But I still love seasons, and Tessa and Scott in whatever programmes they have. Cause those edges are to die for.

  11. #431
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    AsianFSFan: I agree with you that I found PJ's post lacking. I know she tries very hard to be a fair person but at times like these I feel she bends over backwards to sound polite and give DW their due. They already have the gold, how much more respect and praise do they need? Since her personal opinion is that Tessa and Scott should have been awarded the gold, I would much rather read her analysis to justify her opinion, rather than trot out the tried and tested line of "it's a matter of preference/style." She is first and foremost a skating coach, so she totally has the capacity to provide a nuanced and detailed technical analysis that other regular sports journalists cannot. If I were her editor, I would have sent her post back to her to ask her to expand on her opinion because people want an explanation for the results, but no one is getting a satisfying answer from anywhere.

    A few pages back, someone lamented the lack of technical analysis for figure skating (especially ice dance) results when the technology already exists for other sports. I think the ISU feels it doesn't need to be transparent with its results, and therefore is not actively trying to justify the results to anybody other than its members.

    I've been watching all sorts of different winter sports at these Games and am finding that the non-skating commentators are doing a really fine job of explaining how each sport works, and are able to compare the performances between athletes with the help of technology. For example, I was watching Men's Super G (the event where the skiers don't get to practice on the extra difficult course before the competition so they have to improvise as they go downhill), the NBC people were able to show the path of the top 2 skiers on the same screen to demonstrate where each competitor gained or lost speed to explain the results. Why couldn't that be done for the Short Dance to show the varying sizes of the pattern of a few couples, and identify the keypoints for each dance even for the casual fan?

    Other judged sports like Slope Style or Arials have levels of difficulty as well as judges' scores, I don't understand why casual viewers can't see a break down of the skaters' scores on screen. Those marks are already available on ISU's website as soon as they flash on television screens. It's just that too many commentators are too lazy to address them beyond voicing the total or ranking.

    Most of all, I find it appalling that the ISU doesn't have a representative that sits in a press conference after each segment to field questions journalists might have about the results. Since most sports journalists are generalists who don't specialize in writing about figure skating, they can't possibly understand the highly technical and coded scoresheets the ISU provides (even though I think they should). There are always questionable calls/penalties or non-calls in even legit sports like hockey, but most governing bodies have officials who have to face the media and explain all the issues that arise out of each game, and are ready to provide video evidence to justify its actions (suspensions to players, non-goals, timing issues within a game). It has been far too easy for judges to randomly ding skaters on prolonged lifts (1 point deduction), lost levels, questionable GOEs that don't match what was performed on the ice, and PCS that are too open for interpretation that they have lost all meaning.

    As much as I love ice dance (it has been my favourite discipline since Borne and Kratz), I'm not sure I'll be watching in the next quad, to be completely honest.

  12. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by girlscouse62 View Post
    Whatever the issues they certainly don't appear to have anything to do with Charlie. Those hugs from Tessa and Scott seemed really sincere. Nice to see Denny Morrison in the arena with Tessa and Scott, and to hear the support from the Canadian hockey guys.
    What did the hockey guys say?

  13. #433

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    Well said bunhead.
    pug lover

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    What did the hockey guys say?
    From CBC's Scott Russell's piece on ice dance results:

    Just in case you don’t think that people care about ice dancing, or that it really matters in the grand scheme of things … you might want to reconsider.

    I ran into the management team of the Canadian men’s hockey team in the Olympic plaza on the morning of Day 10, and they practically bombarded me with questions about the chicanery that has revealed itself at the Iceberg Skating Palace.

    “Hey Scotty, what’s going on with the ice dance marks?” said Ken Holland, GM of the Detroit Red Wings. “Yeah, what’s the deal with us being second … I thought Tessa and Scott were great?” queried Kevin Lowe of the Edmonton Oilers.

    “Just don’t get it,” shrugged a downtrodden Doug Armstrong, the manager of the St. Louis Blues.

    Their incredulity went on and on.

    We never ended up talking about hockey at all.

  15. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by bunhead View Post
    So all the dirty laundry is getting aired out, eh? About time. Thank goodness for journalists to finally be asking good questions and Tessa and Scott being willing to open up about their struggles this past couple of seasons. We've been pointing out these problems all along and it feels good to know we weren't making things up (even when other VM fans doubted/belittled our concerns), though for Tessa and Scott's sake I wish we were wrong.

    I'm proud of them for leaving no stone unturned to get themselves into silver medal position. According to this Yahoo Sports article, they even tried to change their music to something that would compete better against Scheherazade but was denied by Marina -- but of course:



    I totally agree Tessa and Scott could have done Swan Lake justice... Every time the Sochi audience clapped for Elena and Nikita's FD music choice, I've been wishing the applause was for VM! Since they obviously don't have a Swan Lake gala piece, I really hope they bring back their Carmen FD for the exhibition. Pretty please! Just one last time???
    Well this is interesting. They wanted to change their music and she denied it? Interesting stuff that's for sure.

    Safe to say that if V/M happened to come back for another year (which I doubt) they won't be trained by Marina.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Well this is interesting. They wanted to change their music and she denied it? Interesting stuff that's for sure.

    Safe to say that if V/M happened to come back for another year (which I doubt) they won't be trained by Marina.
    I wish they would.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Well this is interesting. They wanted to change their music and she denied it? Interesting stuff that's for sure.

    Safe to say that if V/M happened to come back for another year (which I doubt) they won't be trained by Marina.
    They are usually positive and politically correct when speaking with the press. The fact that they were willing to open up about their difficulties in getting Marina to fix the programs this year is a retirement announcement right there, IMO.

  18. #438
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    Patrick Chan has mentioned he's considered taking a year for himself and then coming back. Wishful thinking, but how wonderful would it be if my favourite retiring* skaters all came back in 2016 and took the world by storm...

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunhead View Post
    From CBC's Scott Russell's piece on ice dance results:
    Lovely and well thought out earlier post, bunhead You got it on all points!
    Read Scott Russell's piece - this precisely what many (fans or non) are questioning. Still no answer. Or, somewhat a vague one ...

    At this point, I am just partly thrilled and partly relieved that VM preformed both programs, not only flawlessly (as far as we and the world could tell) and with heart They set out to create their moment ... And that they certainly did

    They may very well started out (quite innocently) to change ice dance (combination of athletism and artistry) within the confines of the rules. This particular moment/debate however will spark another set of ripple into the Ice Dance culture/system itself. It already started as far as I could tell ...

    At least, that's what I want to believe ... Here's to hoping!

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Well this is interesting. They wanted to change their music and she denied it? Interesting stuff that's for sure.

    Safe to say that if V/M happened to come back for another year (which I doubt) they won't be trained by Marina.
    I don't know. I didn't get the sense from the interview that V/M asked Marina to change music. I understood more as changing choreo. But perhaps that info was provided off-line in reference to his comment about still loving seasons as a program.

    I wish they will tell us why Swan was never involved for their Olympic program. Was it Marina's big ego or was it because Carmen was not received the way they had hoped it would.

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