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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    ^ he made the decision to leave home and train overseas with an elite coach! only to turn around at the airport and never show up.
    Seriously? WOW! Yeah, not good!

  2. #62

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    The whole generation of the promising Russian male skaters from 2000-2010:

    - Alexander Shubin
    - Andrei Griazev
    - Sergei Dobrin
    - Alexander Uspenski
    - Andrei Lutai
    - Artem Grigoriev
    - Artem Borodulin
    - Nikita Mikhailov
    - Denis Leushin
    - Mikhail Magerovski
    - Ilia Klimkin
    - Stanislav Timchenko
    - Ivan Tretiakov

    A whole lost generation.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

    Bruce Lee

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop1 View Post
    I don't think she ever realized that you are responsible for what you do on the ice, she said in a documentary I saw about her last night she refused to play by their rules. Truth is, she refused to lay by any rules. With Bobek, I think she wanted the results without the work. It doesn't work that way.
    Bobek seemed to want a coach that would just focus on Nicole it seemed. She could not find that. She changed coaches more than she changed her underwear. She had to have made more than ten during her eligible career.



    I share your frustration about Sandhu esp his blaming the COC for his poor results even eight years later.
    And STILL blaming Skate Canada for not sending him to Nagano. He said that right after his FS in Torino! I mean, no, "It was my fault" or anything like that. Or when he was unable to defend his national title against Jeff Buttle - he jumped on Jeff's case, which was so unfair.

    When did Amodio leave because he was homesick?

    I didn't see his LP in the Olympics, is that his abortive free skate?
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    ^ he made the decision to leave home and train overseas with an elite coach! only to turn around at the airport and never show up.
    What berthesghost said. It sounded flaky to me. And his freeskate was so half-assed, it was. But I couldn't stay mad at him when he was in tears in K&C.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    Bobek seemed to want a coach that would just focus on Nicole it seemed. She could not find that. She changed coaches more than she changed her underwear. She had to have made more than ten during her eligible career.
    I think she was at ten when Carlo Fassi died. It's a tall order to want a coach to focus just on you. I know Scott Hamilton changed coaches when he felt Fassi was no longer focusing on him, and had taught and shifted loyalties to his big rival. Bobek's lack of discipline was hardly a secret, I would think it would be hard to find a coach when you're known to change coaches all the time.

    And STILL blaming Skate Canada for not sending him to Nagano. He said that right after his FS in Torino! I mean, no, "It was my fault" or anything like that. Or when he was unable to defend his national title against Jeff Buttle - he jumped on Jeff's case, which was so unfair.
    I know he did. Seriously, GET OVER IT, already! That and his performance is when I just gave up on hoping for him. Though slight correction, it was the COC that said he couldn't go Skate Canada (or then the CFSA) wanted to send him. Yeah, I remember him getting titchy with BUttle. Dude, you can't defend your title when you pop two jumps, and your competitor skates cleanly. I wonder if Joanne McLeod ever called him out on his attitude? She's not highly regarded on the skating message boards, it seems.


    With skaters like Sandhu or Bobek or Amodio it becomes a question of "Do you really want this?".

  5. #65

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    I'd like to say if I had that gift, that I'd use it wisely, but you never know.
    I thought Skate Canada (the federation) wouldn't send Sandhu to the 1998 games in Nagano, coppertop1? No? I'm curious though, as to why McLeod is not well liked? I don't think she was tough enough with Sandhu myself.

  6. #66
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    No, it was the COC. Canada had qualified three men based on the overall placements of Stojko (1st) and Langdon (9th). Problem was that other Langdon no other man (aside from Stojko, obviously) had met the COC criteria which was a top fifteen finish at Worlds and/or a top six finish at two recognizable international events such as the Grand Prix Series. The Four Continent's was not being held then. Skate Canada wanted to send Sandhu, but was barred by the COC who said Sandhu hadn't met the criteria. They did what they could but COC said no, and Sandhu himself decided in the end to just give it up because he wouldn't have had time to prepare.

    Just comments on other forums, it's nothing flaming, much of it is that she tends to complain about her students PCS and that her students Axel technique is lacking and they tend to stagnate. I don't think any of it is invalid. I think someone commented on a forum that Sandhu was her star pupil so she let him get away with things like quitting a rehearsal. I think she could have been tougher on Sandhu, personally.

  7. #67

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    No, it was the COC. Canada had qualified three men based on the overall placements of Stojko (1st) and Langdon (9th). Problem was that other Langdon no other man (aside from Stojko, obviously) had met the COC criteria which was a top fifteen finish at Worlds and/or a top six finish at two recognizable international events such as the Grand Prix Series. The Four Continent's was not being held then. Skate Canada wanted to send Sandhu, but was barred by the COC who said Sandhu hadn't met the criteria. They did what they could but COC said no, and Sandhu himself decided in the end to just give it up because he wouldn't have had time to prepare.
    That is even worse, then.

  8. #68
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    Weird how between the Nagasu, Zhang, Flatt, Wagner crew-Wagner has had the most successful career. Never saw that coming the way Nagasu and Zhang were hyped. I also agree that Rachel did about as much as she could do with her talent.

    Zhang's career is just sad after all that hype. At last the others went to Olympics, worlds, and won national titles.

  9. #69

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    What about Ann-Patrice McDonough?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    That is even worse, then.
    It was a fiaso. My POV was and still is we qualified three, we should have sent three. The third man would be there for experience, with Stojko in the spotlight. Like with Liam Firus, no he didn't get past the SP but he hasn't even been to Worlds, it's all valuable experience. I don't know if the COC still holds those standards now. There haven't been any more situations like that so maybe they loosened up. I think no seeing as there was no issue with sending Daleman and Firus to the Olympics.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Weird how between the Nagasu, Zhang, Flatt, Wagner crew-Wagner has had the most successful career. Never saw that coming the way Nagasu and Zhang were hyped. I also agree that Rachel did about as much as she could do with her talent.

    Zhang's career is just sad after all that hype. At last the others went to Olympics, worlds, and won national titles.
    Zhang and Nagasu had the flair and maybe more star quality, but Wagner IMO is the one who had the drive and work ethic, she worked hard to get where she was.

    Ann-Patrice McDonough also counts, I think she was trapped in a deep field.

    Speaking of Sandhu, the list of Russian Men who were expected to be big but weren't reminds me of how in Canada, there were several men's figure skaters believed to be "The Next One": Sandhu, most commonly was, but also Fedor Andreev, Ben Ferreira, Jeff Langdon who appeared to be The Next One until Sandhu took over, Jayson Denomee. It became "The Curse of the Next One". The skater who actually emerged as the leading man for Canada was Jeffrey Buttle.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by campbellka View Post
    What about Silverstein/Pekarek? They were touted as the best up and coming ice dancers, with so much potential, and then they split.
    They were 1999 Junior World champions then split up after one year as seniors. The year before, another US team (Joseph & Butler) were World Junior champions, went to Worlds & Olympics all in the same year then retired. Since then, Matthews/Zavozin, Samuelson/Bates, and Chock/Zuerlein all won Junior Worlds then split up. Of them all, thouhg, I would agree that Silverstein/Pekarek were the ones that really made me sit up and take notice.

    I agree Nicole Bobek is another one who seemed to have the talent to win everything, seemed like she finally had herself sorted out (US champion and World bronze in 1995) only to not do much more after that.

    If you want to dig waaaay back in the archives, I think Tiffany Chin (4th at 1984 Olympics at age 16, second in the SP and 3rd in the FS) was probably as close to greatness as you can get without achieving it. I think she did end up with a couple bronzes at Worlds.

    Zhang and Nagasu had the flair and maybe more star quality, but Wagner IMO is the one who had the drive and work ethic, she worked hard to get where she was.
    For me, there never was a time I saw Wagner as poised for greatness, including now. IMO she has achieved everything her talent would allow. In a completely different way, I never really believed Zhang was the real deal. She was way too young and her jump technique way too iffy to have any realistic expectation of surviving once puberty hit. (Remember she came right after the similarly shapeless and fussed over Naomi Nari Nam, who also went nowhere.) Of these three, IMO, Nagasu is the one who could and should have achieved more than she did.
    Last edited by Susan M; 02-26-2014 at 06:48 AM.

  12. #72
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    Alot say Sandhu but honestly I never saw him getting to the top level for some reason. People say he showed such promise but at this first Worlds in 99 he was barely top 20. He could never overtaken an aging Stojko as #1 in Canada. Was his potential really that great. I know he had some nice style and good jumps and spins, but it takes more than that to reach the top echelon of the sport.

  13. #73
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    I think the thing with Sandhu was that he was unusually graceful and elegant for his era. Some of his jumps were big but his 3 axel was always problematic. I esp hated that small circular approach he used to the entrance of the jump. You could see disaster written all over it before he ever took off.

    Another skater who I found delightful and expected to do more was Tanja Szewczenko. In 1994, at age 15 or 16, she was 6th at the Olympics and 3rd at Worlds, then struggled with illness followed by up and down results. When she was on, she was really good and an enjoyable performer.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    The whole generation of the promising Russian male skaters from 2000-2010:

    - Alexander Shubin
    - Andrei Griazev
    - Sergei Dobrin
    - Alexander Uspenski
    - Andrei Lutai
    - Artem Grigoriev
    - Artem Borodulin
    - Nikita Mikhailov
    - Denis Leushin
    - Mikhail Magerovski
    - Ilia Klimkin
    - Stanislav Timchenko
    - Ivan Tretiakov

    A whole lost generation.
    This for me is just devastating. Some many of these I adored, especially Borodulin and Dobrin. And Shubin was SO good when he won junior worlds. The list is so long it's heartbreaking...

  15. #75
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    Sorry, double post!

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    What berthesghost said. It sounded flaky to me. And his freeskate was so half-assed, it was. But I couldn't stay mad at him when he was in tears in K&C.
    He also said he left because it seemed he was not Morozov's priority any more - the story was he flew out to NJ for the start of summer training, only to find that Morozov had gone to California with I/K to work with Grishuk without telling him & was told to either find a flight out to CA to join them, or stay in NJ and work until Morozov was ready to come back. So if that's true, I'm not surprised he left, but he would have done better to find a different coach even if it meant moving away from France, rather than the messy set up he had with Krier & Folle this season.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesboom View Post
    Anyone who has to wait for Wing & Lowe to retire to move up is never going to be a big thing.
    That's what V/M did and some were quite pissed about it at 2006 cananadians.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    The whole generation of the promising Russian male skaters from 2000-2010:

    - Alexander Shubin
    - Andrei Griazev
    - Sergei Dobrin
    - Alexander Uspenski
    - Andrei Lutai
    - Artem Grigoriev
    - Artem Borodulin
    - Nikita Mikhailov
    - Denis Leushin
    - Mikhail Magerovski
    - Ilia Klimkin
    - Stanislav Timchenko
    - Ivan Tretiakov

    A whole lost generation.
    I don't know the issues that kept these guys from doing more, but I don 't think any of these guys was ever "poised to break through." Klimkim apart, the others were barely seen at the bigger international events and those who were did not display any especially great talents or gifts.

  19. #79

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    I would say Stephen Carriere. He was never able to repeat his success as a senior that he had on the junior level.

    Also Matt Savoire who came close but never made it to the top of the podium.

  20. #80

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    Alexander Abt - seemed to be hampered by injury and stamina issues.
    An oldie but a goodie - Jayson Denommee of Canada. His asthma hurt his career.

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