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  1. #1
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    Dylan Farrow Accuses Father Woody Allen of Sex Abuse

    Dylan wrote an open letter to the NYT detailing the abuse she suffered at the hands of her father, Woody Allen.
    What’s your favorite Woody Allen movie? Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brother’s electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me. He talked to me while he did it, whispering that I was a good girl, that this was our secret, promising that we’d go to Paris and I’d be a star in his movies. I remember staring at that toy train, focusing on it as it traveled in its circle around the attic. To this day, I find it difficult to look at toy trains.

    ...When I asked my mother if her dad did to her what Woody Allen did to me, I honestly did not know the answer. I also didn’t know the firestorm it would trigger. I didn’t know that my father would use his sexual relationship with my sister to cover up the abuse he inflicted on me. I didn’t know that he would accuse my mother of planting the abuse in my head and call her a liar for defending me. I didn’t know that I would be made to recount my story over and over again, to doctor after doctor, pushed to see if I’d admit I was lying as part of a legal battle I couldn’t possibly understand. At one point, my mother sat me down and told me that I wouldn’t be in trouble if I was lying – that I could take it all back. I couldn’t. It was all true. But sexual abuse claims against the powerful stall more easily. There were experts willing to attack my credibility. There were doctors willing to gaslight an abused child.
    http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/201...r=0#more-12599

    We all have to make our own judgment calls, but I decided a long time ago I would never pay for nor watch another Woody Allen movie again, and I never have.

  2. #2
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    I believe her because of his behaviour with Soon Yi. Unfortunately child abuse is too common in all aspect of society. But in Hollywood I do not believe there have been any serious effort to do with the problem ans punish offenders.

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    I think in Hollywood (and maybe anywhere where celebrities are concerned?), people are very unwilling to rock the boat, ESPECIALLY when it comes to something as widespread and yet deniable as sexual abuse, because it doesn't directly affect their work and could cost them a lot of money. I mean, how much money is Woody Allen going to make his producers if he's sitting in jail? Some people seem to think that the art is just as important as justice.

    I don't know much about Woody Allen (only have seen one of his films), but I see no reason to disbelieve Dylan's account. She is not the first and sadly will not be the last...Hollywood of all places seems to be especially rift with stories like these that are just now coming to light due to an increased awareness and protection of victims. In a day gone by, an article like this wouldn't even go to press.

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    Here's a lengthy article giving the other side. I always like to hear both sides of the story:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...t-so-fast.html

    Her letter is very upsetting and I'm glad she's speaking out (assuming she at least believes what she is telling is true), because it might inspire others to do the same, but where there is reasonable doubt a person can't be convicted (and I do realize he never stood trial). It's heartbreaking to know that she gets such trauma from seeing and hearing about him and seeing him win awards, but since he hasn't been charged with or convicted of anything he has the right to continue making films. Unfortunately, real abusers are always going to be free and I'm sure that's very upsetting for the victims but IMO not as great an injustice as locking up an innocent person. Hopefully her letter inspires others to speak up about abuse because if everyone stayed silent, no abusers would ever face legal consequences. It's sad that there's so much shame and stigma attached to such abuse. As if the actual abuse itself wasn't bad enough.

    For the record, I don't think I've ever seen a Woody Allen movie and am not very interested in doing so. I get a negative "vibe" from him overall based on my extremely limited exposure but that's not enough reason for me not to give him the benefit of the doubt. I give her the benefit of the doubt too, which may seem contradictory, but I don't like to rush to judge other people without all of the information. (Essentially, I think I just don't have enough information to say whether the abuse occurred. I do know that false memories can be created more easily than we'd like to believe, and that's been shown in psychological studies).

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    That was a hard read. I hate to say that I love Woody Allen movies but I do. After reading Dylan's letter I don't think I can watch any of his movies again. The last paragraphs of the letter are very powerful.

    I applaud her for having such strength and for writing such an eloquent letter. Dealing with that kind of abuse is difficult and it must be more so when your abuser is a famous and beloved figure.

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    I haven't watched a Woody Allen movie since … it's been so long, I can't remember. I found this response to Dylan's letter to be the most compelling:

    http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zungu...ens-good-name/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I believe her because of his behaviour with Soon Yi. Unfortunately child abuse is too common in all aspect of society. But in Hollywood I do not believe there have been any serious effort to do with the problem ans punish offenders.
    Pardon me? According to Woody Allen and Soon-Yi, she was 19 when their relationship began, and I don't think anyone seriously disputes this. The fact that he was involved with his partner or ex-partner's adult daughter (adopted daughter, FWIW) may be morally reprehensible, but it doesn't strike me as any indication he was likely to engage in child abuse.

    If you're going to believe Dylan Farrow, it should be for some better reason than that. (And there are such reasons, as reasons for disbelieving her.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I haven't watched a Woody Allen movie since … it's been so long, I can't remember. I found this response to Dylan's letter to be the most compelling:

    http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zungu...ens-good-name/
    An interesting read, but I disagree with the premise that we can't give them both the benefit of the doubt (to at least a certain degree). Also, he misses the possibility that she believes what she is saying is true but her memories are not exactly correct. Even the author of the Daily Beast article that gives the side argued in Woody's favor presumes that she is not deliberately lying about the abuse. I think it's quite unlikely that she is. I think it's slightly more likely that she believes what she is saying is true but her memory is not exactly accurate. And I think it's probably more likely than both of those options that he actually did engage in inappropriate behavior. But there is reasonable enough doubt that he is still free, and free to make movies, and if people like those movies there's no reason he shouldn't receive awards for them. However, if people do think he's probably a really bad person, they're also free to boycott his movies as some in this thread indicate that they have done.

    Also, I think there's even a fourth possibility, that he did engage in strange or "creepy" behavior that didn't raise to the level of criminal. The way she describes the prior events (before the attic incident) it sounds like they made her kind of uncomfortable, but it's not clear that they were criminal. It's uncomfortable to think about but there are a lot of gray areas in life. I don't think anyone is all good or all bad.

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    I think that Woody Allen has a history that shows questionable behavior on his part with young girls. This makes it very hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. I also have personal experiences that make what Dylan Farrow said in her letter ring very true for me. The questionable behavior, the "naps" where Daddy isn't wearing underwear -- this is *also* sexual abuse, btw, just because he didn't rape her those times. It is actually criminal behavior, too, and he could get in trouble for it because touching your children sexually is incest. You don't have to stick your penis into them for it to be incest and criminal.

    So perhaps not every detail happened exactly as she remembers it but I have a hard time believing that nothing incestuous happened between her and Allen. And pretty much nothing in his various denials over the years has had that ring of truth for me. It's all your typical posturing of a pedophile. I have seen unjustly accused men and they did not react like this. They did not lash out at their children.

    I also found that Daily Beast piece to be a hatchet job full of slut shaming towards Mia Farrow (whose behavior, particularly with other men, is mostly irrelevant here) and not remotely unbiased. It totally supports the idea that we live in a rape culture that demands women be of utmost purity before they will be believed while men are automatically given the benefit of the doubt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Pardon me? According to Woody Allen and Soon-Yi, she was 19 when their relationship began,
    You seriously think they would admit it if the relationship began when she was a minor? And she was his freaking step-daughter when she was a child. His relationship with her is really creepy.

    Woody Allen claims a lot of things, including insisting that Ronan, who is a dead ringer for Frank Sinatra, is really his biological son.

    But, I'm sure there are people inside and outside of Hollywood who want to believe Woody Allen for various reasons. I'm sure Dylan knows this, so I admire her even more for speaking out.

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    Mia Farrow and Woody Allen both have a strong element of creep about them.

    During the '80s, I watched the McMartin Preschool abuse case played out over the course of years, leading to the death of at least one of the adults, and ruined lives for others. Some of the kids sincerely believed they'd been abused in weird and satanic rituals, but it was rather conclusively proven that they were false memories that had been provoked/coached. It was a terrible situation. Many of the parents truly, truly believed their kids had been abused. There were a rash of similar allegations around the country. Lives were ruined.

    Mia Farrow's role during the period of the alleged abuse was strange and creepy, and it taints the evidence. I believe Dylan believes she was abused. But is it a true memory, or was she coached by her mom into believing that? I think of the McMartin case, and I'm not sure.

    But abuse is real.

    In this particular case, lacking physical evidence, I'm hesitant to jump on and judge Allen guilty, especially when there doesn't seem to be a pattern of abuse. Which doesn't mean he's innocent...

    Polanski's case seemed much clearer to me.

    And, other than Annie Hall, I can't say that I'm a fan of any of Woody Allen's films. He may be a brilliant filmmaker, but they're not to my taste. (I didn't like Polanski's films either. Not sure that liking/not liking them particularly influences the way I think about them.)

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think that Woody Allen has a history that shows questionable behavior on his part with young girls. This makes it very hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. I also have personal experiences that make what Dylan Farrow said in her letter ring very true for me.
    I'm sorry.

    The questionable behavior, the "naps" where Daddy isn't wearing underwear -- this is *also* sexual abuse, btw, just because he didn't rape her those times. It is actually criminal behavior, too, and he could get in trouble for it because touching your children sexually is incest. You don't have to stick your penis into them for it to be incest and criminal.
    I understand that. In Dylan's letter though she says that he WAS wearing underwear while they were under the covers and doesn't mention any touching during those scenarios. Sticking his thumb in her mouth and breathing in and out with his face in her naked lap sound outrageously strange and creepy but do they constitute a crime? I honestly don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    You seriously think they would admit it if the relationship began when she was a minor?
    Buzz said that Woody Allen's conduct with Soon Yi made it believable that he would have molested a seven-year-old girl. You can't use conduct that might have happened but no one knows about for sure other than the two people involved to prove conduct on another occasion.

    I think Mia Farrow would have accused him of it if she had any reason to do so. The fact that she hasn't accused him of that suggests that she knows it isn't true.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 02-03-2014 at 06:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Mia Farrow and Woody Allen both have a strong element of creep about them.

    During the '80s, I watched the McMartin Preschool abuse case played out over the course of years, leading to the death of at least one of the adults, and ruined lives for others. Some of the kids sincerely believed they'd been abused in weird and satanic rituals, but it was rather conclusively proven that they were false memories that had been provoked/coached. It was a terrible situation. Many of the parents truly, truly believed their kids had been abused. There were a rash of similar allegations around the country. Lives were ruined.
    I remember the first time I learned of that case in a sociology class and thinking it was absolutely mind-boggling that a case like that could possibly happen. It's literally one of the strangest and most unbelievable things I've ever heard of that is nonetheless true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post

    Sticking his thumb in her mouth and breathing in and out with his face in her naked lap sound outrageously strange and creepy but do they constitute a crime? I honestly don't know.
    They may not be criminal, but they're certainly inappropriate and troubling behaviour by a parent.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I think Mia Farrow would have accused him of it if she had any reason to do so. The fact that she hasn't accused him of that suggests that she knows it isn't true.
    Because, if they did begin having sex when she was a minor, they would have told Mia? Seriously? Dylan told Mia about her abuse. Totally different. I really doubt that Mia is certain that Soon Yi and Woody really started their relationship shortly before she discovered the naked photos he had of Soon Yi. I think Mia did accuse Woody of exploiting Soon Yi's mental problems. And I have no difficulty believing that Soon Yi had some serious issues. What girl that age rips her family apart by getting involved with a guy who is several decades older than her and is basically her step-father? That's screwy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    They may not be criminal, but they're certainly inappropriate and troubling behaviour by a parent.
    And other children have been taken out of the home for similar types of behavior. Especially the naked lap stuff. You just don't put your lips on your kid's naked genitals. There is no reason for a parent of either gender to be doing that. (And I don't see how he could be breathing into her lap without his lips down there.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    And other children have been taken out of the home for similar types of behavior. Especially the naked lap stuff. You just don't put your lips on your kid's naked genitals. There is no reason for a parent of either gender to be doing that. (And I don't see how he could be breathing into her lap without his lips down there.)
    If he did touch his lips to her naked genitals then that quite clearly fits the definition of sexual abuse. It wasn't entirely clear exactly what she meant by that statement which is why it seemed potentially gray. And in any case, he DID lose custody of her and I'm sure the allegations were considered as part of the reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    We all have to make our own judgment calls, but I decided a long time ago I would never pay for nor watch another Woody Allen movie again, and I never have.
    I made the same decision after me got together with Soon Yi . It wasn't that difficult because his movies were all so self-indulgent and egocentric anyway. With the exception of one or two films, he was always the central character in them and they were inevitably about the angst and neuroses of rich entitled artist and writer types who had too much free time in their summer homes and too many beautiful people to have affairs with.

    Allen just gives me the creeps, period.

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    I looked at the linked article in The Daily Beast, and IMHO it's crap - and very nasty crap. The author seems to be saying: oh, no one knows what really happened. And then he lists a whole bunch of reasons as to why his friend Allen probably didn't do it. Even though no one knows what really happened

    I also noticed that he gave the new first name that Dylan now goes by, which she herself didn't use in the NYT article. That told me all I needed to know about the author's alleged intent to be unbiased.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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