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  1. #61
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    Sounds a bit like a "Leaving Las Vegas" scenario (movie in which Nicolas Cage goes to Vegas to drink himself to death). Reports are coming out now of things he said in the weeks leading up to his death and things he did, including buying a large quantity of the drug, that suggest he was planning an extended binge. Whether he hoped to come out of it or not, we might never know.

    My favourite performance of his was in Charlie Wilson's War - he was brilliant.

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    Sorry to see another talent person lost to addiction. I really hope as a society, especially in the US that we learn to addiction in ALL FORMS is an disease. It's crazy we still have such a stigma on addiction, it allows for keeping the disease in the dark, allows for shame and so many other destructive outlets.

    I"m referring to all types of addictions, drugs(illegal, legal and prescribed), alcohol, sex, food, and etc. It's time that we all start to look at ourselves, recognize that we may all have an addiction or a high craving for many substances that may lead to death too. Some addictions are man made too(chemicals/substances) in our food that make up crave certain drinks and foods.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  3. #63

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    It's so crazy to think he was clean for two decades and then fell off the wagon in such a catastrophic way. I wonder what triggered him to relapse. Last year, I think, he checked into rehab after using prescription pills and then graduating to snorting heroin. If the prescription pills triggered his relapse, then I wonder if he got them illegally or if he was prescribed them. If he was prescribed prescription painkillers, then I wonder if his doctors knew of his addiction.

    Addiction is such mess and not only does it suck the soul out of or kill addicts, it also wrecks havoc on their families too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    Sorry to see another talent person lost to addiction. I really hope as a society, especially in the US that we learn to addiction in ALL FORMS is an disease. It's crazy we still have such a stigma on addiction, it allows for keeping the disease in the dark, allows for shame and so many other destructive outlets.

    I"m referring to all types of addictions, drugs(illegal, legal and prescribed), alcohol, sex, food, and etc. It's time that we all start to look at ourselves, recognize that we may all have an addiction or a high craving for many substances that may lead to death too. Some addictions are man made too(chemicals/substances) in our food that make up crave certain drinks and foods.
    I have never quite been able to look at addiction as a "disease." My father was an alcoholic for most of his adult life, had heart problems, colon and throat cancer. He was also a heavy smoker. Also, alcoholism runs rampant on the paternal side of my family. The throat cancer killed him in the end. To me, the heart problems/cancer were his diseases, not drinking and smoking. The alcoholism/nicotine addiction were byproducts of the choices he made - more of a condition to me, not a disease. He died from cancer and there was nothing that could prevent that. He always had the power of choice regarding his addictions. Is it hard? Yes. But he always had a choice.

    With many diseases, there really isn't much choice. You just have to go along with whatever treatment is out there, while hoping that it might be effective. With terminal diseases, forget it. No choice. I have a had weight problem for most of my life, but I've never thought of myself as having a "disease". It's not. I made my choices. After a 115 pound weight loss, I'm at a healthy weight now, but it's a struggle everyday. It's just hard for me to slap the word disease on many of the demons and trials that we have to suffer because of our own choices.

    JMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    I have never quite been able to look at addiction as a "disease." My father was an alcoholic for most of his adult life, had heart problems, colon and throat cancer. He was also a heavy smoker. Also, alcoholism runs rampant on the paternal side of my family. The throat cancer killed him in the end. To me, the heart problems/cancer were his diseases, not drinking and smoking. The alcoholism/nicotine addiction were byproducts of the choices he made - more of a condition to me, not a disease. He died from cancer and there was nothing that could prevent that. He always had the power of choice regarding his addictions. Is it hard? Yes. But he always had a choice.

    With many diseases, there really isn't much choice. You just have to go along with whatever treatment is out there, while hoping that it might be effective. With terminal diseases, forget it. No choice. I have a had weight problem for most of my life, but I've never thought of myself as having a "disease". It's not. I made my choices. After a 115 pound weight loss, I'm at a healthy weight now, but it's a struggle everyday. It's just hard for me to slap the word disease on many of the demons and trials that we have to suffer because of our own choices.

    JMO.
    No, you raise some really good points. Good for you on taking control of your life, even if it's a struggle every day. Especially since it's a struggle every day. PSH's fate is proof that even if you've spent years and years sober, it doesn't mean you're in the clear. It is a struggle every day.

    When people think of diseases, they think of communicative diseases, but the medical definition includes "abnormal condition."

    It's kind of semantics and cultural definitions, but I believe people say it's a disease to not lay 100% of the blame on the person it is affecting. Just like depression, you can't simply will yourself out of an addiction. Nor can a person with a family history of food addiction typically will themselves into a supermodel-thin body. In order to stay healthy, you can't live life like a non-addict/non-depressed/non-obese person. There are things you have to choose to do to handle it. And yes, that is a choice, but it isn't as easy as just choosing not to be the person you don't want to be. We wouldn't have such serious issues with various non-communicative diseases if it were that easy.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    I have never quite been able to look at addiction as a "disease." My father was an alcoholic for most of his adult life, had heart problems, colon and throat cancer. He was also a heavy smoker. Also, alcoholism runs rampant on the paternal side of my family. The throat cancer killed him in the end. To me, the heart problems/cancer were his diseases, not drinking and smoking. The alcoholism/nicotine addiction were byproducts of the choices he made - more of a condition to me, not a disease. He died from cancer and there was nothing that could prevent that. He always had the power of choice regarding his addictions. Is it hard? Yes. But he always had a choice.

    With many diseases, there really isn't much choice. You just have to go along with whatever treatment is out there, while hoping that it might be effective. With terminal diseases, forget it. No choice. I have a had weight problem for most of my life, but I've never thought of myself as having a "disease". It's not. I made my choices. After a 115 pound weight loss, I'm at a healthy weight now, but it's a struggle everyday. It's just hard for me to slap the word disease on many of the demons and trials that we have to suffer because of our own choices.

    JMO.
    I concur the definition that Anita18 gave. I feel addiction is a condition of abnormal behavior and causes.

    I'm sorry to hear about your dad and this lifelong fight with addictions. I"m sure his addictions possibly contributed or were the cause of heart disease and cancer.

    In regards to your weight problems, it depends on what you think are weight problems. Are these doctor/medical descriptions of obesity or your own cultural/personal values of weight problems. As for myself, I have addiction to sugar, particularly fructose. . Our bodies are naturally wired to crave sugar. However, things like depression, fatigue, stress, exhaustion, dehydration, and sleep deprivation make the body crave an instant energy boost. I noticed this after I had my daughter that I really really wanted sweets. As a new mother, all the things I mentioned above some into play. So I would eat ice cream, candy, soda and cookies between meals. All of these things contain high fructose corn syrup, casien and MSG. All very addictive ingredients. A year after my daughter was born, I weighed 35 pounds more than I did when I pregnant with her.

    I finally realized I have a food addiction. Some foods I do not buy anymore because I can't help myself when eating them. I have learned to eat many sweets in moderation. However, I have my triggers. For example, my mom's homemade banana pudding made with sweetened condensed milk and a custard like filling is my kryptonite. I can't just have a cup of the stuff, I will get the entire pan(8 x 8 or 9 x 13 in). My mom has not made in 2 years.

    There are foods that contain ingredients that make us addicted. I've read too much documentation to not believe that manufactured fructose is addictive. I believe the research that states the body does process it differently. I feel differently when I've eaten products with high fructose corn syrup, MSG, sucralose. You really have to look at food ingredients to find a product that does not contain these items.

    I had to do a complete lifestyle change.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    but it's a struggle everyday.
    That is the disease.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    No, you raise some really good points. Good for you on taking control of your life, even if it's a struggle every day. Especially since it's a struggle every day. PSH's fate is proof that even if you've spent years and years sober, it doesn't mean you're in the clear. It is a struggle every day.

    When people think of diseases, they think of communicative diseases, but the medical definition includes "abnormal condition."

    It's kind of semantics and cultural definitions, but I believe people say it's a disease to not lay 100% of the blame on the person it is affecting. Just like depression, you can't simply will yourself out of an addiction. Nor can a person with a family history of food addiction typically will themselves into a supermodel-thin body. In order to stay healthy, you can't live life like a non-addict/non-depressed/non-obese person. There are things you have to choose to do to handle it. And yes, that is a choice, but it isn't as easy as just choosing not to be the person you don't want to be. We wouldn't have such serious issues with various non-communicative diseases if it were that easy.
    I know it's not that easy. After growing up around my dad, I would never think something as simplistic as that. I didn't mention it before, but I have struggled with chronic depression for the past twenty years to the point that as recently as 15 months ago, suicide looked very attractive. I have had these urges before, but this time I actually got right up to point where I started thinking about how big a syringe of insulin it would take to finish me off (my dog is diabetic, so insulin is always in the fridge.) I had never gone quite that far before on that train of thought, so it really shook me up. My doctor put me back on my previous medication, and things quickly improved.

    These issues are very personal, of course, but I felt the need to make it clear that I am not naïve about these kinds of situations.
    Last edited by nubka; 02-05-2014 at 04:55 AM.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    That is the disease.
    Not to me it isn't. I struggle every day to keep the kitchen bar uncluttered - is that a disease?
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  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    Not to me it isn't. I struggle every day to keep the kitchen bar uncluttered - is that a disease?
    Well, it depends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    Not to me it isn't. I struggle every day to keep the kitchen bar uncluttered - is that a disease?
    No, it's not a disease. If it was, many of us would be considered sick.

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    I don't quite agree with the idea that just because something is a "choice" that it somehow negates it as a disease. That doesn't mean you don't have it (especially if something like addiction runs in your family), it just means you're careful to not put yourself in a vulnerable situation. However, oftentimes, people's choices in life (many of those don't seem like they have much a choice) expose them to things that people willingly accept as a disease. Like say STDs. People choose to have unprotected sex, but if they contract a sexually-transmitted disease, does choosing to partake in risky sexual behavior negate their disease? No.

    The addiction is the disease and IMO, it's one in which people always have and have to combat no matter how many years they stay sober.

    I guess like you nubka, I deal first-hand with a parental figure who was an alcoholic, but I absolutely believe he suffered from a disease.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    I know it's not that easy. After growing up around my dad, I would never think something as simplistic as that. I didn't mention it before, but I have struggled with chronic depression for the past twenty years to the point that as recently as 15 months ago, suicide looked very attractive. I have had these urges before, but this time I actually got right up to point where I started thinking about how big a syringe of insulin it would take to finish me off (my dog is diabetic, so insulin is always in the fridge.) I had never gone quite that far before on that train of thought, so it really shook me up. My doctor put me back on my previous medication, and things quickly improved.

    These issues are very personal, of course, but I felt the need to make it clear that I am not naïve about these kinds of situations.
    I think knowing that you're in some control of your fate helps, but many can't keep that balance. That's why it's so hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    Not to me it isn't. I struggle every day to keep the kitchen bar uncluttered - is that a disease?
    Well do you have to live your life differently from people who do keep their kitchen bar uncluttered?

    To me, if it's affecting your everyday life in a negative way, that's the line. The people I know with OCD would struggle to keep their kitchen bar "uncluttered"....to the tune of it taking up 3 miserable hours of their life every day.

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    I think for me, when someone says addiction is a disease, it somehow keys the addict off the hook for his behavior. I have multiple addicts in my family including my late father. It's just hard to feel sympathetic for them after a while because they really affect their families in such horrible ways. My dad did some really unscrupulous things when he was addicted to heroin and it cost him his marriage and his family. Yes, I know addiction is powerful but I wish keeping his family together had been a more powerful motivator to stay clean. In the discussion of PSH, I admit I feel horrible not for him but his family especially his children.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

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    I don't know if disease is the exact right word but whenever I read about crocodile - and how your body turns hard and grey until you die from a certain form of meth abuse but still hardly anyone kicks the habit - I realized addiction is very much a physical condition and not just a choice. The physical component can be stronger than the survival instinct or stronger even than vanity. That's a real thing.
    What would Jenny do?

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    @Nubka you mentioned you have struggled with depression. Do you consider your depression a disease?

    @modern_Muslimah - For me I don't consider recognizing something as a disease lets me off the hook and excuses my behavior. I simply acknowledge that I have a chemical dependency on food/sugar. New and recent research show that sugar is more addictive than cocaine. It hits all the brain's addiction triggers. There are many people who are depend on effects that sugar brings to their brain. Sugar changes your taste buds, brain chemistry, hormones, and metabolism. Personally, I believe 40 to 50% of Americans have a food addiction to sugar and do not want admit or they don't recognize that they have a chemical dependency on a drug. Many people only look at addiction in forms of alcohol and drugs(illegal).
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka View Post
    I know it's not that easy. After growing up around my dad, I would never think something as simplistic as that. I didn't mention it before, but I have struggled with chronic depression for the past twenty years to the point that as recently as 15 months ago, suicide looked very attractive. I have had these urges before, but this time I actually got right up to point where I started thinking about how big a syringe of insulin it would take to finish me off (my dog is diabetic, so insulin is always in the fridge.) I had never gone quite that far before on that train of thought, so it really shook me up. My doctor put me back on my previous medication, and things quickly improved.

    These issues are very personal, of course, but I felt the need to make it clear that I am not naïve about these kinds of situations.
    Nubka, this breaks my heart. I have felt those feelings too. Thankfully, never to the point of acting on them. But, I understand. Depression is an illness. Depression, addiction, OCD, many psych illnesses are inter related, co-morbid. I understand that you feel in control of your food issues, right now. I am in control of mine. However, I will always have an eating disorder, whether it's active or not. I can choose not to act on it, but it is a struggle every day. That struggle is the illness. The understanding that one slip can put me back there. The guilt and self loathing that goes along with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    No, it's not a disease. If it was, many of us would be considered sick.
    Anita already said this, OCD would make it an illness. Mine doesn't present as needing a clear kitchen counter. However, my entire sink and counter have to be bleached if I cook any meat, chicken, or fish. sometimes twice. My OCD presents as germophobia. Doing laundry can be debilitating, is it ever clean enough to get it into the dryer? So, depending on whether you just like things to be neat, or you are compelled to constantly straighten and panic if things are out of place, yes it can be an illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by modern_muslimah View Post
    I think for me, when someone says addiction is a disease, it somehow keys the addict off the hook for his behavior. I have multiple addicts in my family including my late father. It's just hard to feel sympathetic for them after a while because they really affect their families in such horrible ways. My dad did some really unscrupulous things when he was addicted to heroin and it cost him his marriage and his family. Yes, I know addiction is powerful but I wish keeping his family together had been a more powerful motivator to stay clean. In the discussion of PSH, I admit I feel horrible not for him but his family especially his children.
    Everyone suffers when someone suffers with addiction. But, that doesn't mean it is not an illness. Everyone suffers if a person becomes physically ill too. And, in my opinion, calling addiction an illness doesn't let anyone off the hook. It puts them on the hook to get help. It may be an illness, but it can be treated. The person may suffer for their entire lives with addiction even though they remain clean and sober. The need and anguish remains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    Many people only look at addiction in forms of alcohol and drugs(illegal).
    Just as many people look at anorexia and bulimia as eating disorders, but don't consider obesity as one. If we did, it would go a long way toward treating the overweight person with respect, kindness, and treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Just as many people look at anorexia and bulimia as eating disorders, but don't consider obesity as one. If we did, it would go a long way toward treating the overweight person with respect, kindness, and treatment.
    Obesity is not a disorder on its own. It may be the result of a disorder though.

    Anorexia is not the opposite of obesity. Extreme thinness is- and that doesn't necessarily mean anorexia.
    There are many bulimics who are actually overweight.

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