Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 89
  1. #21

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Planning? No, no. Let's keep it suicidal.
    Posts
    5,016
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34851
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501 View Post
    Why are you so determined to out someone?
    The only 'outing' here involves figuring out who made certain comments about what mainstream audiences find appealing. And if it is Keegan's coach, at least the fact that the two of them were the only ones in the article who were willing to state that perception in so many words 'straight sells better than gay' -even anonymously in one case- is pretty telling in and of itself. You can't start to address a problem unless people are willing to admit it exists (i.e. let skaters be themselves instead of pushing 50's gender roles on them). Then again, maybe all this vagueness goes back to USFSA trying to maintain the status quo and a good way of doing it would be to make vague statements that skirt the issue.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,019
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501 View Post
    Why are you so determined to out someone?

    Why do you have to know?

    apparently the person in question wanted to remain private. Time to take your fingers off the keyboard and quit gossiping
    Outing someone as a person to make a comment? In this thread in particular I think using the phrase "outing someone" certainly seems to take a different meaning.

    I want to know because I think the comments are rather appalling.
    People shouldn't say things they don't want to be associated with. Good rule of thumb is if you have to ask to remain anonymous, maybe you ought to rethink what you are saying. (Edit: I've thought about this, and there are times where I think people have to be very brave to make comments and do their best to stay anonymous, perhaps in politically oppressive regimes or what not. Perhaps that is what he felt he was doing. But I literally looked for less than a minute and figured out which top american skaters had former Olympians as coaches. It wasn't like he was careful about it.)
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 01-31-2014 at 11:21 PM.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Planning? No, no. Let's keep it suicidal.
    Posts
    5,016
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34851
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    But I literally looked for less than a minute and figured out which top american skaters had former Olympians as coaches. It wasn't like he was careful about it.
    Alternatively, the author revealed too much information and inadvertently blew the anonymous cover

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    407
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Primorskaya View Post
    Comments on this and on the Newsweek article are pretty telling: non skating fans reading them are astounded that the sport and its participants are either homophobic or locked firmly in the closet. They expect it to be the most gay-friendly place on earth.
    I know, it's so weird. Johnny has repeatedly talked about the homophobia in figure skating. I remember him referring to judges that are "of a different generation," to the USFS as "very conservative," and also writing in his book about how they tried to get him to stop wearing "feminine" costumes.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,281
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Outing someone as a person to make a comment? In this thread in particular I think using the phrase "outing someone" certainly seems to take a different meaning.

    I want to know because I think the comments are rather appalling.
    People shouldn't say things they don't want to be associated with. Good rule of thumb is if you have to ask to remain anonymous, maybe you ought to rethink what you are saying. (Edit: I've thought about this, and there are times where I think people have to be very brave to make comments and do their best to stay anonymous, perhaps in politically oppressive regimes or what not. Perhaps that is what he felt he was doing. But I literally looked for less than a minute and figured out which top american skaters had former Olympians as coaches. It wasn't like he was careful about it.)
    Tell you what, when you decide that your comments can be made without a made up screen name then you have the right to demand transparency.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Take me back to TEXAS
    Posts
    730
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1501
    I have lost all respect for Keegan

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,863
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40900
    People automatically assume people are straight until proven otherwise and people here gossip all the time about who is dating who in the skating world. But when it comes to homosexuality, all of a sudden people are being "too sexual" or you simply rather not know anything about the skater.

    I think that perpetuates the problem of shaming sexuality and to a deeper extent, shaming homosexuality…as if it needs to be something to hide. About the comment about people needing to not be obsessed with this and focusing on "saving the world"…well, one can do both (and to some people, solving this anti-gay rhetoric is "saving the world" within their communities). Also, one can make a similarly dismissive comment about about a bunch of posters spending a great amount of time obsessing about figure skating.

    I understand many skaters are afraid for a great number of reasons, but I just don't like a lot of these attitudes about not expressing sexuality or being critical of it when it is expressed all the time with heterosexual skaters.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    487
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm proud of Jeremy Abbott for taking a stance, though.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In and around.
    Posts
    10,629
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3495
    Quote Originally Posted by immoimeme View Post
    Really.wtf difference does it make. Should we publicly speculate on YR sexuality? We can you know lol.

    In general, why the fck is every fcking thing so sexualized these days? Don't we have anything better to do, like save the planet?!
    Speculate away. But acknowledging someone's sexuality doesn't make it sexualised. If someone mentions a spouse or significant other in passing, is that "so sexualised"? No. But once homosexuality comes in to play it is? That doesn't make sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I understand many skaters are afraid for a great number of reasons, but I just don't like a lot of these attitudes about not expressing sexuality or being critical of it when it is expressed all the time with heterosexual skaters.
    Absolutely.
    "How you treat the weak is
    Your true nature calling" -- Jane's Addiction

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,228
    vCash
    5550
    Rep Power
    17487
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    People automatically assume people are straight until proven otherwise
    Except for male figure skaters (and some other exceptions)

    and people here gossip all the time about who is dating who in the skating world. But when it comes to homosexuality, all of a sudden people are being "too sexual" or you simply rather not know anything about the skater
    The double standard is unfortunate. But it also interests me that discussing or openly being in a relationship is considered "being sexual." If straight skaters were actually acting sexually or talking directly about sex I think that would be frowned upon too. A lot of assumptions and generalizations are made and the fact that people who are close with someone in what seems to be or is described in a romantic way are automatically having sex (at least if they're above a certain age, below which people would be made very uncomfortable by the thought that they might be) is one that seems to bother few people but does bother me. There are asexual people in the world and some of them want romantic relationships too, but it seems that they and bisexual people are often rendered almost completely invisible.

  11. #31

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,641
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8021
    I this was an interesting article, and an interesting problem.

    I am left with the question of

    a) is the strange that it seems to be as hard to be gay in figure skating that it seems to be in, say, football?
    b) or is the strange thing that it seems strange to me that it is that way?

    I don't think individual athletes (of whatever age) should be 'outed' or out themselves - no matter the sport they should keep private life as private as they want, but on the other hand it should not be a deterring factor for their career if they do mention they are gay.

    I also think it is sad that the men in figure skating have to try to be so 'masculine', it does seem rather odd. I really don't see why I should make any assumption on someone's sexuality based on on their performance - or the number of sequins on their costumes. I also don't agree with the one coach that say European and Japanese 'styles' are more 'masculine' - for instance both Oda and Fernandes doesn't strike me as particularly 'masculine' skaters, or rather they are both pretty artistic and well rounded.

    The coach with the manly-man skater is douche, who ever he is. And I can tell for a fact, that my husband, a straight guy, whenever he watches a little skating with me, likes sequins and sparkly costumes, they are more fun!

    Lastly, I think that the US Figure Skating Association tries to hard for skating to be 'family entertainment', and to muzzle their skaters when talking to the press. On both these are other topics, the polite, boring answers are very annoying. I know some media coaching is a good thing, but the sport really seems stuck in the 50s in the headquarter (and not just on gay issues).

    Don't even get me started in how women figure skaters are supposed to look all pretty princess like..
    Check out my baking blog at http://morethandough.wordpress.com, and like it on facebook. Thanks!

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    548
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Andora View Post
    Speculate away. But acknowledging someone's sexuality doesn't make it sexualised. If someone mentions a spouse or significant other in passing, is that "so sexualised"? No. But once homosexuality comes in to play it is? That doesn't make sense...
    Excellent point. That's why I wonder why closeted celebrities feel the need to dodge the "Are you gay?" question when there's really nothing sexualised about it. It's like asking "What nationality are you? "

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    159
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It's so, so sad. All of it.

    I can't wait for someone to break the floodgates and compete "out". It's time. Football has done it, skating should too. People like watching honesty, contrived-ness has nothing appealing.

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    407
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    Don't even get me started in how women figure skaters are supposed to look all pretty princess like..
    I had to laugh when I saw a photo of the newly named U.S. Olympic team and all the women were sitting with their hands folded in their laps and their ankles crossed. Exact same finishing school pose, all of them.

  15. #35
    having a nice day
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    in a nice day
    Posts
    8,236
    vCash
    50
    Rep Power
    16157
    Okay okay! I surrender! I see all y'all s points and can't clearly explain my own. Off to save the planet.....so everyone can skate as they like whee!:-)
    Have a nice day!

  16. #36

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,228
    vCash
    5550
    Rep Power
    17487
    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    I don't think individual athletes (of whatever age) should be 'outed' or out themselves - no matter the sport they should keep private life as private as they want, but on the other hand it should not be a deterring factor for their career if they do mention they are gay.
    ITA.

    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    And I can tell for a fact, that my husband, a straight guy, whenever he watches a little skating with me, likes sequins and sparkly costumes, they are more fun!
    I am also heterosexual (I have a personal dislike of the term straight) and a low-level skater myself and personally don't have any interest in wearing sequins or sparkles, not for fear of being seen as gay but because I don't like to draw visual attention to myself in general. And I really don't care very much what the skaters I watch wear. I might aesthetically prefer one thing over another but very rarely have super strong opinions about clothing. I have no general preference for or against sequins, sparkly costumes, or more plain costumes for men.

    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    Lastly, I think that the US Figure Skating Association tries to hard for skating to be 'family entertainment', and to muzzle their skaters when talking to the press. On both these are other topics, the polite, boring answers are very annoying. I know some media coaching is a good thing, but the sport really seems stuck in the 50s in the headquarter (and not just on gay issues).
    Most of the questions skaters are asked are boring though, and I wouldn't have exciting answers to them either. I don't bother listening to post-skate interviews if a skater didn't do well because I feel bad and awkward and can pretty much guess what they're going to say when asked about their performances. I can pretty much guess what a happy skater will say too, more or less, but at least it's generally fun and well...happy...to see happy skaters. As far as speaking out on political issues, I can't really blame them for not doing so. I used to be very reluctant to my express my opinions and tastes in most contexts and only very recently started being braver about expressing myself (but not through my choice of figure skating outfits ).

    Don't even get me started in how women figure skaters are supposed to look all pretty princess like..

  17. #37

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,131
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    813
    I recommend this story over the Newsweek one, too.

    A much more thoughtful and well-researched story.

  18. #38

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    759
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    608
    It is Beyond Time to let the Skaters be ATHLETES - regardless of their sexual orientation - from all angles. There should be no need nor encouragement to hide homosexuality OR heterosexuality. Until we (and, apparently, USFS) can realize that sexual choices and orientation (for males and females) is NOT relevant to the sport or athletic ability, nothing will change. Why should any young adult (or less than adult) be forced in to a position to hide their sexual orientation (and do not be kidded in to believing there are not hetero men who have to hide their orientation from gay men in the skating world, if not from USFS) OR to "make a statement" to advance political agendas about sexual orientation. These are personal choices that have nothing to do with athletic ability or results. It si Wrong that Russia has made this such an issue in this Olympic cycle, but also wrong if we use it to force young athletes in to making statements they are not personally prepared to make, whatever their personal choices. Their job: SKATE.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    78
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Just once, I would like to see a skater respond to the orientation question with, "Why do you want to know?"

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,055
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It's hard to get a grip on the issue at this time and place. Obviously the US or North American social concept of masculinity does not necessarily represent the whole world, especially given the rising popularity of skating in Japan and Korea. I don't think the US and Canadian federations today is nearly as terrified as they were 5 or 10 years ago. Skating federations and ISU have had a tradition of gagging insiders from making any comments that could potentially harm the public image of the sport, and that is not limited to the issue of homosexuality. It's a sport very much sensitive and neurotic about "images," so is it any surprise that the "ruling class" are anxious stirring up controversies in the larger society? Only when the larger society has given the sport permission to be "non-masculine" (whatever that means) will they feel safe to stop gagging their athletes and judges and other insiders.

    I don't think it's fair to portray the entire establishment as a monolith. I'm sure plenty of coaches and judges and officials vehemently disagree with each other about these things over the years and even today. It's unrealistic to expect no coaches, judges, and officials to be homophobic. It is only because of the fear of opening internal discussion that has maintained the illusion of a monolithic official position.

    Figure skating unfortunately has to care a lot more about its "family friendly image" than other sports, because it does have a performance aspect, set to music and couched in dance choreography and judged, in part, for a skater's ability to emotionally affect people. Plus, because skaters can make a living PERFORMING as a professional, when athleticism is no longer as important and when skating is purely a performance. So a federation has a stake in not only a competitive sport but also an entertainment business. How many Hollywood stars are out? The larger society is changing rapidly and most of the old-timers who grew up in the conservative era are still around. It's unrealistic to expect everyone in skating to be more progressive than the world they live in.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •