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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Which proves absolutely nothing.
    Ha, never said it did. You're reading too much into it.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    There's also a class aspect: ballet is an aristocratic art that stems from the court of Louis XIV. .....
    No. It was born in the earlier Italian courts of Florence's Medicis. Even Mary Carillo knows that. See her recent NBC piece on Ballet and Skating links.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  3. #63
    I <3 Kozuka
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    No. It was born in the earlier Italian courts of Florence's Medicis. Even Mary Carillo knows that. See her recent NBC piece on Ballet and Skating links.
    To clarify, as a schooled, professional performance art form, it stems from the court of Louis XIV. That it was born in an earlier court as social dance and court pageanty and spread to the court in France shoes an earlier tie to the aristocracy.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    Ha, among my circle of lesbian friends, Tonya was their it girl.
    What does that indicate?
    See my post, above, about assumptions.

  5. #65
    Watch me move
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    Ha, never said it did. You're reading too much into it.
    Then why bother to mention it?
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  6. #66
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    [QUOTE=Fan123;4136042]Ha, I always think Plushy and Johnny had the least "masculine" approach to their programs. And the reason why Plushy excelled better was his far superior basic skating skills, consistency in jumps, speed & ice coverage, and spins.


    Mindboggled at the idea that plushy's performances are seen as not masculine but in the same category with Johnny. IMO every move Plush makes, even with graceful balletic arm movements oozes powerful masculine skating. Sex Bomb was sexy in a masculine way--in some of the videos take look at how he stands at the boards, shifting his feet at the beginning...seductive moves. Obviously the strip and bumping and grinding pelvis bit was a caricature.
    As for lesbians, imo they are seen as being more "masculine" in behaviour/appearance just as gay men are more "effeminate" . Therefore it seems logical that women so inclined would practice more aggressive masculine sports such as hockey, soccer etc. and not be inclined to dress up in super feminine princess skating outfits.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    What does that indicate?
    See my post, above, about assumptions.
    It was in the context of the discussion RFOS and a few others have brought up on why there aren’t any lesbian skaters, and for me, if I need to name any possible one, it would be Tonya Harding. Had the issue not been raised, I wouldn’t have brought up her name, or any skaters for that matter.

    As for the comment that Tonya was the “it” girl among my lesbian friends, Tonya had the hair, look, and aura that was sexually appealing to them, but had nothing to do with her sexual orientation. Brad Pitt was/is the it boy for some gay men and women is another example.

    On the topic of Tonya Harding, if the argument is that USFS is extremely conservative and is only “family-friendly” focus, isn’t it interesting she was able to win a National title? My point is that talent and delivery is more important than the other incidentals. Had Tonya didn’t deliver, we wouldn’t hear about her, whether she was a tomboy or an ice princess type. So I think the argument that skating is not welcoming of skaters who are “different” is a bit overly exaggerated. There are countless champions who had never fit the “family-friendly” mold. I think it’s not about “playing the game”, but about skating skills and the ability to deliver when it matters.

    I think it’s quite dangerous to say to a younger skater, “the judges feel you aren’t masculine enough, so you need to butch it up .” instead of , “the judges feel your interpretation to the character could be better.”
    Last edited by Fan123; 02-04-2014 at 12:11 AM.

  8. #68

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    I knew that you were referring to Tonya.

    Is the fact that had a powerful style rather than a feminine one supposed to indicate her orientation?
    It's doubtful, at best.

    One's body type would tend to determine one's stylistic approach, IMO.

  9. #69
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    At 2001 worlds during a break a very Canadian man and I were talking about artistry in mens fs and he cracked me up when he said something like " Yah, elvis, poor boy, got none cause he's built like a fire-plug, what can you do?!"

    Well in Elvis' defense he did come up with incorporating martial arts and fs and I thought that was a v gd mix and quite suited his body type and his interests.
    PLUSHENKO YOU ARE ALWAYS THE BEST

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianFan
    Mindboggled at the idea that plushy's performances are seen as not masculine but in the same category with Johnny. IMO every move Plush makes, even with graceful balletic arm movements oozes powerful masculine skating.
    Well, I think ALL male skaters are by default less masculine than other male athletes in other sports. Just look at the costumes and body movements for starters compare to American football, baseball, basketball, etc. If male figure skaters are considered gay in North America, so be it. Funny how ironic it’s not even a problem (and I don't think it's a problem that our sport is called gay) in Russia and Asian countries, yet we’re supposed to be the leader of the free world.

    I don’t get why some within skating prefer masculinity in male skaters over femininity. One can be effeminate, and yield sublime power, speed, and height. If we prefer masculinity in male skaters, aren’t we ourselves giving into what the general public thinks about our sport? This preference of masculinity over femininity is unattainable in skating among male skaters. We need to accept it, IMO.
    Last edited by Fan123; 02-04-2014 at 07:12 AM.

  11. #71

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    I agree with many Ziggy comments. Jenny Kirk hit the nail on the head,
    The stereotypes trap male and female skaters. "We're stuck in the 1950s with these beautiful housewives on ice," Kirk says. "We have to act a certain way. Our hair and makeup have to look a certain way
    This conservative ideal of gender roles for men and women are outdated are still be perpetuated by judges and former skaters who have so much say so in a young skaters life. How many female skaters did we see skate in pants this season? How many have we've seen skate to non traditional "ladies" music, ie lyrical and soft music.
    I beleive the outdated culture of skating is what is hurting the sport's popularity in the US. Granted, it's never going to be like it was in the 80s/90s, but I hope the music change would result in more modern/edgy programs. Heck we have some fSUers complain about the Papadakis and Cizeron free dance music to Woodkid's Iron.

    *Woodkid's music is very popular and the music is featured in video games and tv series, Run Boy Run was featured in the CW's show Reign.

    However, I think the article stating the figure skating is the gayest sport of the olympics is naive and unfounded. What about hockey or softball?
    Last edited by topaz; 02-04-2014 at 04:31 AM.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    I knew that you were referring to Tonya.

    Is the fact that had a powerful style rather than a feminine one supposed to indicate her orientation?
    It's doubtful, at best.

    One's body type would tend to determine one's stylistic approach, IMO.
    I don't believe so. That's like saying because a female has large breasts, wide hips or a volumptous butt she should be discouraged from a balletic style. She should stick to "modern dance" style.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    How many female skaters did we see skate in pants this season?
    So the more pants, the more tolerant USFS is?

    Quote Originally Posted by topaz
    I beleive the outdated culture of skating is what is hurting the sport's popularity in the US.
    Yet how can the outdated culture of skating is booming in Russia, Japan, and Korea?
    Last edited by Fan123; 02-05-2014 at 01:58 AM.

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