Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 73
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,328
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2662

    Newsweek: The Frozen Closet


  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,634
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I have a 21 month old son. He loves to watch skating, so I plan on taking him to lessons when he's two this summer. I'm sure he will be the only boy. I get comments about how I shouldn't ever put him into skating, "so he won't turn out gay". It's horrific the things hockey dads tell little boys, or what these other kids tell the figure skating kids--the boys. I would not be surprised if this sort of awful behavior is why so many boys drop out. Or how you shouldn't wear sparkles (my son likes sparkly things. oh noes, he's gay!1! um. even if he does end up gay, who the $#%#$ cares?! my kid will still be awesome while you'll still be an asshole) or anything remotely feminine.

    Just a rant, really. But it makes me so, SO angry that any of this stuff matters/is a problem/etc.
    Last edited by Lanie; 01-31-2014 at 05:41 AM.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,870
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3930
    Nice to see Lorrie Kim quoted.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    in the yarn stash
    Posts
    1,790
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Really decent article. Glad so many folks got quoted. Apwas a little surprised there was no commentary on all the awkward things eligible US skaters said about the gay laws in Russia -- would have been helpful to note that even commenting on this stuff is fraught with challenges for men skaters.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,967
    vCash
    1271
    Rep Power
    5546
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I have a 21 month old son. He loves to watch skating, so I plan on taking him to lessons when he's two this summer. I'm sure he will be the only boy. I get comments about how I shouldn't ever put him into skating, "so he won't turn out gay". It's horrific the things hockey dads tell little boys, or what these other kids tell the figure skating kids--the boys. I would not be surprised if this sort of awful behavior is why so many boys drop out. Or how you shouldn't wear sparkles (my son likes sparkly things. oh noes, he's gay!1! um. even if he does end up gay, who the $#%#$ cares?! my kid will still be awesome while you'll still be an asshole) or anything remotely feminine.

    Just a rant, really. But it makes me so, SO angry that any of this shit matters/is a problem/etc.
    The tot classes I've seen are pretty evenly mixed between boys and girls. Hockey skaters have to learn the same basic skills so the separation of boys and girls doesn't happen until they get to the freestyle level.

  6. #6
    Watch me move
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    16,739
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I get comments about how I shouldn't ever put him into skating, "so he won't turn out gay". It's horrific the things hockey dads tell little boys, or what these other kids tell the figure skating kids--the boys. I would not be surprised if this sort of awful behavior is why so many boys drop out.
    I've heard parents say they don't want their son coached by a male figure skating coach because all male figure skating coaches are gay. Seriously. And I've heard this more than once.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,425
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I didn't realize there was an effeminacy associated with gymnastics, as stated in the article.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sochi voids
    Age
    25
    Posts
    2,137
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I didn't realize there was an effeminacy associated with gymnastics, as stated in the article.
    Any sport that emphasizes form, pointed feet and line seem to be associated with "femininity." Diving, gymnastics, ballet, figure skating etc.

    Figure skating needs to embrace the fact it will never be seen as what society considers to be a "masculine" sport. And it shouldn't have to try. It is what it is. Anyone should feel welcome in the sport - gay, straight, etc - and be able to skate in a style that they feel most comfortable. Figure skating is about expression and athleticism, which is what makes it so unique.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,023
    vCash
    5550
    Rep Power
    7820
    Fascinating article with a lot of interesting perspectives. It's late so I don't have the time or energy to post a lot of thoughts right now but will probably post some tomorrow.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,291
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    45241
    Very interesting article. It seems to deal mainly with American skaters though. I am curious about how FS is viewed in other parts of world- particularly Europe.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    3,861
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Well, most surprised I am with American skating fans who seem to have a tendency to assume all male singles skaters to be gay, like e.g. they did rather harshly in connection with Michael Weiss. To me it seems that today there are plenty of skaters who are not gay. Gay or straight, it does not matter, but one should not assume anything.

    It is a pity, that many young skaters probably give up the sport of figure skating because it labels them.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Really interesting. It's scary how homophobic society still is. I gave a male friend some tickets to the men's final at Natls. When I saw him after the event, practically his first comment was, "Are ANY of those guys straight?" I wanted to say, "Why does it even matter?" He'd enjoyed the event but obviously still couldn't stop thinking about the gay/straight issue. Makes you realize that there's a segment that's probably never going to be able to appreciate skating because it vaguely threatens their worldview. IMO it's a waste of time and effort trying to "masculinize" the sport. If anything, as shown by Johnny's success and popularity, skating should perhaps embrace its gayness--where it exists. Let skaters wear as many feathers and sparkles as they want and just be themselves. Skaters who share their real personalities are those who will have strong fan bases, be they gay, straight, or whatever.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,089
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The important point, that sometimes gets lost, is the intersectionality of this kind of cultural hegemony and discrimination. It affects everyone, including girls. As Kirk put it: "We're stuck in the 1950s with these beautiful housewives on ice." And later in the article: 'In singles, men can wear trousers (not tights) and women can wear skirts, trousers and tights - but try finding a female figure skater competing at the elite level in something other than nude tights and a leotard of some kind.'

    The conservativeness of the sport extends far beyond gender issues as well. I remember discussing program ideas with a competitive skater. Since that skater liked rock and metal music, I suggested picking it for their programs, mentioning instrumental arrangements of Metallica, for example. They immediately objected saying it would be too 'out there' and the judges and the federation really wouldn't like it.

    On a different note, it's sad that this article re-inforces the ignorant attitudes towards IJS. "The purpose of the new judging system is to hide everything," says renowned figure skater Dick Button. And by 'everything' he means the judges' names I guess? Because everything else is completely transparent which was never the case under the previous judging system where you had absolutely no clue why the ordinals went the way they did.

    It's even sadder to see Goebel agreeing with and perpetuating the dominant hegemonic discourse.

    And it's yet sadder, and quite shocking, to see that in 2014 USFS still doesn't have sexual orientation listed in their anti-discrimination policy. USOC has added it now, maybe in 50 years USFS will follow suit...

    I really like how the article ended, by exposing the thoughtlessness and/or denial between the 'there is no problem' attitudes.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 01-31-2014 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    488
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    Really interesting. It's scary how homophobic society still is. I gave a male friend some tickets to the men's final at Natls. When I saw him after the event, practically his first comment was, "Are ANY of those guys straight?" I wanted to say, "Why does it even matter?" He'd enjoyed the event but obviously still couldn't stop thinking about the gay/straight issue. Makes you realize that there's a segment that's probably never going to be able to appreciate skating because it vaguely threatens their worldview. IMO it's a waste of time and effort trying to "masculinize" the sport. If anything, as shown by Johnny's success and popularity, skating should perhaps embrace its gayness--where it exists. Let skaters wear as many feathers and sparkles as they want and just be themselves. Skaters who share their real personalities are those who will have strong fan bases, be they gay, straight, or whatever.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

    Lanie. I commend your unapologetic attitude, and have fun with your 21 month old son this summer.

    While I appreciate the author’s perspective with many excellent points, I think she’s missing the mark by not addressing enough the stereotyping of masculinity with being straight, and femininity with being gay; and that masculinity is preferred over femininity in male skaters. For example, many of Brian Bointano’s programs were quite “masculine”, yet he was/is gay. Likewise, many of Alexei Urmonov’s were “effeminate”, yet he was/is straight. Then you have Rudy and Johnny’s programs…less masculine, yet they were able to achieve high marks. In many cases, the gender expression of the whole package changes accordingly to the type of character or persona a skater wants to achieve, regardless of his sexual orientation.

    I do however I agree there’s still a certain level of homophobia within our wonderful sport, seemingly unique than other sports…yet it’s interesting to hear of many out gay skaters within the skating community. At the end of the day however, if you can’t land your jumps, you can’t attribute homophobia to the lack of support by skating officials.

    As a side note, I am glad that USFS is planning on including sexual orientation to their non-discrimination policy. Hopefully other sports will follow.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,089
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    While I appreciate the author’s perspective with many excellent points, I think she’s missing the mark by not addressing enough the stereotyping of masculinity with being straight, and femininity with being gay; and that masculinity is preferred over femininity in male skaters.
    It's a newspaper article on homophobia in skating, not a gender studies academic article on how gender and sexuality are constructed and perceived.

    As for traditional ideas of masculinity being preferred in male skaters, the article mentions it many times throughout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    For example, many of Brian Bointano’s programs were quite “masculine”, yet he was/is gay.
    The point this article is making is that gay male skaters are being bullied into 'manning up' and presenting a 'straight image.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    Likewise, many of Alexei Urmonov’s were “effeminate”, yet he was/is straight.
    Urmanov's skating was only seen as 'effeminate' by moronic North American commentators, like Dick Button. Urmanov's skating style was classical and balletic and it would have never been seen as 'effeminate' in Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    Then you have Rudy and Johnny’s programs…less masculine, yet they were able to achieve high marks.
    The article mentions that some skating fans thought he should have placed higher at 2010 Olympics and that he wasn't picked by the Stars on Ice tour, despite winning an online poll for who the fans would like to see the most, because of not being 'family friendly' enough.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    95
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    "Urmanov's skating style was classical and balletic and it would have never been seen as 'effeminate' in Russia."

    Russia/Soviet Union doesn't have any homosexuals, doncha know?

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    City of Blinding Light
    Posts
    15,739
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4218
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I have a 21 month old son. He loves to watch skating, so I plan on taking him to lessons when he's two this summer. I'm sure he will be the only boy.
    At his age, the classes in my area are normally 50/50 boys and girls.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    City of Blinding Light
    Posts
    15,739
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4218
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Very interesting article. It seems to deal mainly with American skaters though. I am curious about how FS is viewed in other parts of world- particularly Europe.
    In Russia, males who skate and dance are considered masculine.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,089
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    "Urmanov's skating style was classical and balletic and it would have never been seen as 'effeminate' in Russia."

    Russia/Soviet Union doesn't have any homosexuals, doncha know?
    That too.

    But mainly because ballet is held in very high esteem and is an important part of Russian culture.

  20. #20
    ridin my horse named Bob
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    in my imagination
    Posts
    8,126
    vCash
    31
    Rep Power
    9483
    Great photo of the incurably faaaaabulous Johnny Weir!!

    I myself don't care what a skater's sexual orientation is. I care if they are showing me some great skating !!! And fulfilling their skating potential. I do hate how the presentation of the sport insists on making skaters fit into this pre-packaged box or that one or another. Branding. Marketing. Bleh.
    IMO the article covered what fsu has already covered. It just packaged it a different format for middle-America to digest.
    PLUSHENKO YOU ARE ALWAYS THE BEST

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •