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  1. #261

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    I know I am late to this conversation. My husband has been battling mental illness over half his life although he has never been suicidal. I understand fully how helpless you felt waiting for the psychiatrist to call you back and for your physician to just blow you off. Sometimes it helps my husband to write out all his fears and misperceptions, it kind of calms him down either till the additional dose takes effect or the doctor returns the call

  2. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    You're absolutely right that the brain is a complicated mechanism, and you have to keep in mind that the state your brain is currently in is coloring your view of life and the world. If you can keep pushing until you get help, things may well start looking very different to you -- and it probably won't take decades, either.

    That's what we all want for you. That's what we hope and pray that you will start wanting for yourself. Please, keep hanging on. We will keep walking with you, as best we can, as long as it takes.
    You spoke for me.

  3. #263
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    Good morning Gazpacho. I am hoping that you are feeling a bit better today. I, sincerely, hope that you feel all of the love and care that all of us are sending to you. I wish that you could see yourself through our eyes. We see a very special, lovable, smart, articulate, important person. A person who is needed. I am certain that you have caught glimpses of that wonderful person, when you are feeling better. Try to focus on that. don't define yourself by your illness, define yourself by the wonderful person you really are.

    It has been a month, since you started this thread. It really bothers me that your doctors still have not seen you. That is so irresponsible and unprofessional! A phone call is not enough, they need to see you. And I really do think you should demand blood work.

    (((Gazpacho))) XOXOXO

  4. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    A similar thing happened to a friend of mine. Her mother had MS and she killed herself only a year or two before the first, successful medications were available. She wasn't in an advanced stage yet, she just would have had to hold out a little longer. My friend, her daughter, has MS, too, and she's living a normal life. She's recently had a baby boy, her absolute joy and pride. She's told me how there are trials now that might make the MS medication available to take orally, as pills, so that would mean she wouldn't have to have infusions anymore.
    And remember, there even is a vaccine against a form of AIDS now. It seemed impossible but people do the impossible every single day. Walt Disney said, it's fun to do the impossible. I guess, these people are not only taking his word for it, they try it themselves and I'm sure they're having fun or they wouldn't be so dedicated. And there really seems to be nothing that is impossible! Just remember that. There's always light at the horizon and there's a sunrise every minute of the day somewhere in the world! Hope doesn't die, it's inside you, too, and it will eventually silence those doubts! You'll make it through this!
    Exactly. The brain is very complicated, but we're working every day to find the mechanisms about how the brain works, how things can go wrong, and how we can help put the neural circuits back together.

    I see young patients--a 28 year old, a 15 year old--who have incurable neurological diseases that will leave them paralyzed in the next 5 years and on a ventilator and/or dead in 10 years. Yet they are working hard every day to stay alive--eating right, exercising properly, doing physical therapy, etc. Why am I telling you this, Gazpacho? Because when I feel like giving up, when I'm in tears thinking that my life is worthless, I think back to them and how hard they're working just to stay alive. And then I know that I have no right to give up.
    Last edited by altai_rose; 03-01-2014 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    I see young patients--a 28 year old, a 15 year old--who have incurable neurological diseases that will leave them paralyzed in the next 5 years and on a ventilator and/or dead in 10 years. Yet they are working hard every day to stay alive--eating right, exercising properly, doing physical therapy, etc. Why am I telling you this, Gazpacho? Because when I feel like giving up, when I'm in tears thinking that my life is worthless, I think back to them and how hard they're working just to stay alive. And then I know that I have no right to give up.
    Look, telling a deeply depressed person that there are people worse off than they are is not going to help them at all. If anything, you're making them feel guilty for their depression on top of everything else. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. It sounds as though you don't.

    I don't doubt your good intentions.

    Best wishes to Gazpacho.
    Last edited by orientalplane; 03-01-2014 at 05:06 PM.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  6. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Look, telling a deeply depressed person that there are people worse off than they are is not going to help them at all. If anything, you're making them feel guilty for their depression on top of everything else. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. It sounds as though you don't.

    I don't doubt your good intentions.

    Best wishes to Gazpacho.
    If I understand what you mean by "I do know what I'm talking about", then I think you'll also understand that different things work for different people with depression.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    I can honestly say that even if it gets better, it will have to be "better" for decades before I think things have been worth it. And statistically speaking, that simply won't happen.
    You cannot redeem the past. What's happened has happened, and nothing can change that. But that's not the point. One cannot make the past better by today's circumstances. Rather, one takes each day as it comes and tries to live it in as good a way as possible.

    If someone loses a child, that doesn't somehow become ok because another baby is born later. Past traumas don't become something other than what they are just because of the passage of time. The sting may lessen, but they will still remain life tragedies. The point, though, is what has happened in the past doesn't have to define our future. But to do that, we cannot live in the past, waiting for something good to happen to make everything bad that's happened somehow no longer bad. Instead, we have to let go of yesterday, and grab hold of today. And that's a choice each person has to make everyday.

    JMHO, but living a good life isn't so much a matter of personal happiness, but in being a blessing to others. One of the struggles we all face is not getting so wrapped up in our own struggles that we can no longer see the pain and needs of others. The more we come into ourselves, the more constrained we become, and the bigger our problems look in our lives. It's in coming out of ourselves that healing is able to happen.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    And that's a choice each person has to make everyday.

    JMHO, but living a good life isn't so much a matter of personal happiness, but in being a blessing to others. One of the struggles we all face is not getting so wrapped up in our own struggles that we can no longer see the pain and needs of others. The more we come into ourselves, the more constrained we become, and the bigger our problems look in our lives. It's in coming out of ourselves that healing is able to happen.
    I understand your point. And, in most cases, would agree. However, with mental illness, choice is not always a factor. Some people are so debilitated by mental illness that they are either incapable of making an active choice, or they so distrust their ability to choose that they passively do nothing (which I recognize is a choice). In many cases, the brain occludes our ability to think rationally. It takes treatment, pharmaceutical and therapy, to get to a place where choices are viable. If you cannot breathe, and cannot get out of bed, and are depressed to the point Gazpacho is, you cannot think of others, you can barely think to eat.

    Orientalplane, I don't believe altai_rose was trying to make Gazpacho feel guilty. She was explaining how she has learned to cope with debilitating feelings. I believe that she was trying to give Gazpacho an option that might help her. As I said, up thread, my aunt killed herself. I did not mention this, but my mother attempted suicide. My father, thankfully, found her in time. It was devastating. If you have not gone through it, it is very hard to fathom how it feels that a parent would want to leave you like that. And I realize that they are not thinking about you or clearly, when they do it. But, it haunts you. I have also dealt with feelings of wanting to die, myself, from being OCD and depression. But, when I do, I remember how I felt when my aunt died and my mother attempted suicide. That is the proverbial cold water in my face. It is what reminds me that an act of suicide, if successful, is permanent. You cannot have a do over. You can't come back if a game changing treatment is discovered. This is not about guilt. It is about understanding all of the consequences of suicide. Another thing to consider is failed suicide. Though my mother was saved, she was humiliated. Humiliation, is a minor consequence. Some people who attempt suicide, then deal with permanent, physical damage. Then they have the original mental anguish along with physical pain. And, we spent the rest of her life terrified to upset her. All anyone here wants to do is give Gazpacho a reason to fight. Get her to a doctor. Encourage her to believe that she is wonderful, important, worth fighting for. You never know what might trigger that. Maybe just saying you care, or maybe laying out the truth of what happens. We will fight for her as long as she lets us, and in any way that works.
    Last edited by cruisin; 03-01-2014 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    That's the line of thought that brought me to this miserable state. The closest I ever got to suicide, I pulled back a little at the last second. That's the biggest mistake of my life. Things were in order, I was ready to go. But then I thought, I'm still young. What if it gets better? I cry thinking about that because if only things were slightly different, I would be gone, and that would have spared me all the suffering I've gone through since.

    I can honestly say that even if it gets better, it will have to be "better" for decades before I think things have been worth it. And statistically speaking, that simply won't happen. Statistically speaking, I have a well over 95% chance of having multiple suicidal episodes. The brain is a complicated mechanism. There are no cure--treatments perhaps but no cures--on the horizon for psychiatric illnesses of my magnitude.

    I wish the last 20+ years of my life hadn't happened. Even on a really happy day, like the day I graduated college, I distinctly remember telling someone that yes, this was a happy day. Yes, I had accomplished something. But no, it was not worth living for.
    (((Gazpacho))) I am sorry to read that you are still suffering. Please try to not evaluate things or events so much. Try to live in the present moment, as much as you can, even if it feels hopeless. The past is gone. You cannot do anything about it, but you can do something about the future by living in the present. Suicide will take away that option from you. The present may appear dark right now, but you could have bright days ahead. Don't give up. You are in my thoughts.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    However, with mental illness, choice is not always a factor. Some people are so debilitated by mental illness that they are either incapable of making an active choice, or they so distrust their ability to choose that they passively do nothing (which I recognize is a choice). In many cases, the brain occludes our ability to think rationally. It takes treatment, pharmaceutical and therapy, to get to a place where choices are viable. If you cannot breathe, and cannot get out of bed, and are depressed to the point Gazpacho is, you cannot think of others, you can barely think to eat.
    This is the crux of the problem with mental illness. The brain--the very thing that you generally rely on to make sense of things--is broken. Gazpacho, you're aware of this in an abstract way, but think of it more literally. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't trust it to be able to carry you across the room without assistance. You have a broken brain. Those dark thoughts, the feeling of hopelessness, those are coming from your brain. You can't trust them to be the truth. You are going to need help with this; I sincerely hope that you have a support system. You certainly have many people online rooting for you. There are a wide variety of medications and treatments available and even more that are being discovered. It might take a while to discover which one (or combination) will work for you.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Orientalplane, I don't believe altai_rose was trying to make Gazpacho feel guilty. She was explaining how she has learned to cope with debilitating feelings. I believe that she was trying to give Gazpacho an option that might help her.
    No, I don't think she was deliberately trying to do so either. As I said in my post, I don't doubt her good intentions. But when altai_rose says that because there are people who are physically worse off, then she feels she has "no right to give up", then I think this is sending the wrong kind of message to those who are severely depressed. Implicit in the words "no right to give up" is the idea that everyone can get better if they really try. And I've felt too suicidal and seen far too many suicides to believe that. There isn't always light on the horizon, and hope does sometimes die.

    I won't be saying any more about this, as it's Gazpacho's thread and I don't wish to derail it any further.
    Last edited by orientalplane; 03-01-2014 at 09:31 PM.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  12. #272

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    (((Gazpacho))) You're still in my thoughts and I'm so sorry you're still in so much pain. Please keep checking in and talking to us.
    "Liking this sport is ridiculous, so you’re a little different for liking it, she explained. But you’re allowed to like what you like." - Robert Samuels

  13. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    This is the crux of the problem with mental illness. The brain--the very thing that you generally rely on to make sense of things--is broken. Gazpacho, you're aware of this in an abstract way, but think of it more literally. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't trust it to be able to carry you across the room without assistance. You have a broken brain. Those dark thoughts, the feeling of hopelessness, those are coming from your brain. You can't trust them to be the truth. You are going to need help with this; I sincerely hope that you have a support system. You certainly have many people online rooting for you. There are a wide variety of medications and treatments available and even more that are being discovered. It might take a while to discover which one (or combination) will work for you.
    Yes, exactly. This is well said.
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  14. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    No, I don't think she was deliberately trying to do so either. As I said in my post, I don't doubt her good intentions. But when altai_rose says that because there are people who are physically worse off, then she feels she has "no right to give up", then I think this is sending the wrong kind of message to those who are severely depressed. Implicit in the words "no right to give up" is the idea that everyone can get better if they really try. And I've felt too suicidal and seen far too many suicides to believe that. There isn't always light on the horizon, and hope does sometimes die.

    I won't be saying any more about this, as it's Gazpacho's thread and I don't wish to derail it any further.
    I respect your opinion and your experience, but you know absolutely nothing about my experience, my psychology, and what I've gone through. This is a public forum and I don't feel comfortable revealing some things. As I said before, different things work for different people with depression.

    I also don't wish to derail this thread further.

    Gazpacho, please keep checking in and telling us how you are.
    Last edited by altai_rose; 03-01-2014 at 10:48 PM.

  15. #275
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    I wish things were different. Thanks for letting us know what's going on. :-)
    Have a nice day!

  16. #276

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    You're in my thoughts and prayers tonight, Gazpacho.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  17. #277

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    Thinking about you tonight, Gazpacho.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I understand your point. And, in most cases, would agree. However, with mental illness, choice is not always a factor. Some people are so debilitated by mental illness that they are either incapable of making an active choice, or they so distrust their ability to choose that they passively do nothing (which I recognize is a choice). In many cases, the brain occludes our ability to think rationally. It takes treatment, pharmaceutical and therapy, to get to a place where choices are viable. If you cannot breathe, and cannot get out of bed, and are depressed to the point Gazpacho is, you cannot think of others, you can barely think to eat.
    In some cases I would tend to agree. But if you look at what you and others are doing in this thread, you are making rational, reasoned arguments in response to Gazpacho in the hopes or encouraging her to make certain choices over other choices. And for one month now, Gazpacho has read and responded to those reasoned arguments in a coherent manner. Gazpacho has had the wherewithal to eat, to breathe, to repeatedly call her doctor, to come online and post, to watch the Olympics in one of her favorite sports and post about that, to research and make decisions about her medicinal usage, etc. We're not talking about someone so divorced from reality that she can no longer have a reasoned discussion. If so, people are posting in vain in this thread.

    The decision to stop trying to redeem the past requires consciously changing one's thinking patterns every time one's thoughts veer towards the past. One can learn to do that in a therapeutic setting, but ultimately it's something that one purposefully does on one's own outside a therapist's office. IOW, it's a choice of where one chooses to spend their mental energies.

    What Gazpacho described is a common way of thinking for many people--it's not something tied to mental illness. But it's neither healthy nor realistic. And really all that type of thinking does is rob the possibilities of today by burying them under the overwhelming sorrows of yesterday. So one has to change the way one views the present. A good day is good not because it redeemed something bad that happened in the past, but because one experienced happiness or was a blessing to others in some way today.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    In some cases I would tend to agree. But if you look at what you and others are doing in this thread, you are making rational, reasoned arguments in response to Gazpacho in the hopes or encouraging her to make certain choices over other choices. And for one month now, Gazpacho has read and responded to those reasoned arguments in a coherent manner. Gazpacho has had the wherewithal to eat, to breathe, to repeatedly call her doctor, to come online and post, to watch the Olympics in one of her favorite sports and post about that, to research and make decisions about her medicinal usage, etc. We're not talking about someone so divorced from reality that she can no longer have a reasoned discussion. If so, people are posting in vain in this thread.

    The decision to stop trying to redeem the past requires consciously changing one's thinking patterns every time one's thoughts veer towards the past. One can learn to do that in a therapeutic setting, but ultimately it's something that one purposefully does on one's own outside a therapist's office. IOW, it's a choice of where one chooses to spend their mental energies.

    What Gazpacho described is a common way of thinking for many people--it's not something tied to mental illness. But it's neither healthy nor realistic. And really all that type of thinking does is rob the possibilities of today by burying them under the overwhelming sorrows of yesterday. So one has to change the way one views the present. A good day is good not because it redeemed something bad that happened in the past, but because one experienced happiness or was a blessing to others in some way today.
    You make very good points here. However, it is possible to appear coherent/reasonable, but be in complete mental turmoil. It is not simply an inability to let go of the past. It is understanding the potential future. I know that a component of bi-polar is fear of episodes. I can relate to that (on a lesser level), as I get panic attacks, due to my OCD. Often, the fear of the anxiety/agitation/racing, repetitive thoughts/fear itself, is the most disabling part. Very few people would be aware of my mental state, when I am going through a panic attack/OCD episode. I can appear very calm outwardly, and be reeling mentally. Gazpacho may be able to communicate rationally, with us via the internet. But, we are not there. We are not seeing what she is doing and how she is behaving for the hours/days that we don't hear from her. You can have therapy and meds that work, but that will not prevent episodes where you lose control. The therapist can give you coping mechanisms, and that does help. But, the anguish still happens. Sometimes you can reign it in, sometimes it gets control of you. I believe that it is crucial for Gazpacho to be seen by both her psychiatrist and PC doctors. I believe blood work should be done, I believe that an evaluation of her meds should be done. I believe that it is possible that she should be hospitalized to possibly go off the meds she is on and try another mix. I know I have said these things numerous times, but, I am OCD. It is possible that Gazpacho understands she needs to do these things, but just can't make herself do it. If, in fact, her doctors are not cooperating, that is unprofessional and she should find other doctors.

    Just a point: I am not discussing my issues to talk about me. I am hoping that Gazpacho is reading what I write and what others have confided, and realizing that she is not alone. I am, also, hoping to try to communicate that while in the midst of an episode, choices are complicated.

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    Gazpacho ... still praying for you.

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